We’ve all been on bad first dates. When you think about them, are there any common themes? Below are seven things not to do on a first date. Whether you have chemistry or not, avoiding these things will make the date a better experience for everyone.

1. Talking about your ex/past relationships

If you’re talking about your ex in a positive light, it looks like you’re not over that person. And if you’re talking about your ex in a negative light, it looks like you’re not over that person… and likely somewhat bitter about it.

A few years ago, I went on a date with someone I had matched with on Tinder. He seemed nice enough… until he mentioned his ex-wife. I didn’t ask any questions about that relationship because it’s really not my business, and I encourage people to keep things light on the first date. Without any prompting, he proceeded to tell me a long list of negative things about her and how she made him miserable, in addition to telling me that she had a mental illness. A few thoughts immediately went through my mind:

He’s not over her.

If he speaks that poorly of her, what would he say about me one day?

He shares very personal information about other people with strangers.

I was certainly flattered that he felt comfortable enough to share this information with me, but it was completely inappropriate in that setting (at a bar, mind you). He also did not pick up on my cues to change the direction of the conversation. While he and I didn’t have enough in common to warrant another date anyway, the fact that he spent the majority of the date bashing his ex sealed the deal for me.

Some people think it’s fun to share sob stories. It’s not… at least not on a first date, when you should simply be seeing if you have rapport with someone.

2. Being late with no notice or being excessively late, even with notice

You’re running late. Things happen. Be kind enough to notify your date with ample time, if possible.

I once had a date that started at 3 pm. I arrived at 2:59pm and didn’t see him, so I texted to ask if he was inside. He replied at 3:04pm that he was on his way. He arrived at 3:08pm with no apology. I wouldn’t have cared at all that he was running late. But the fact that he didn’t tell me in advance — and didn’t apologize — was enough to make me annoyed. Remember that your time is no more valuable than anyone else’s.

3. Having your phone out or texting someone else

It’s rude, plain and simple. When you have your phone out, the other person assumes you’re looking for better plans or would jump to leave at the first ding of a text. For the duration of the date, try to put your phone away. (And “away” does not mean screen-side down. It means out of view.) An exception, of course, is if you’re expecting a call or text. Then, simply tell your date up front.

4. Talking about any one topic (especially work… or yourself) too much

If you talk about work the whole time, it feels like an interview. If you talk about yourself, you sound self-absorbed. Make sure the conversation is a give-and-take and it flows.

5. Being rude to a server… or anyone

Treat people kindly, no matter who they are.

6. Not tipping well

Be generous. Tip well.

7. Flipping the “off” switch if not interested

Sometimes you walk into a date, and you know within the first five minutes it’s not a match. That’s OK — it happens! But rather than running through your grocery list in your head during the date, try to stay present and engaged. You both made the time to be there, so it’s best to make the most of it, learn something, and try to enjoy yourself in some capacity.

Now that you know what not to do, it’s time to get dating. And don’t forget to smile!

This article originally appeared on the Tribune News Service.

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Do you wonder whether you’ll ever meet a man who is the right partner for the woman you’ve become? Janine did. She’d left her quarter-of-a-century marriage. When the pandemic began eight years later, she had a successful career and the wisdom that comes from decades of self-development. On our Season 4 finale, Janine shares how she approached dating as an adventure, came close to giving up on her search, and took a series of remarkable risks that has led her to the love she was seeking.

Season 4, Episode 12

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Jodi: Hi, Janine. Thank you for joining me this episode to share your first date story.

Janine: Jodi, it’s so great to be here. Thank you.

Jodi: I am really excited to delve into your story today. Before we do that though, I’d love it if you would share a bit about yourself, so that listeners get a sense of who you are.

Janine: Thank you, Jodi.

It’s exciting to be here as well. I am in my mid-fifties, I had the gift and the burden of a quarter century marriage that I chose to leave after a certain point, when I decided that the ways that I wanted to grow and be in this world, took me away from who I was and the commitments that I made. At the beginning when I was a young person and didn’t know myself very well, we had the incredible gift of a very large community and a beautiful young daughter who was now in college and thriving.

And I had left my marriage to begin in a whirlwind adventure of dating. And that continued for eight years. And I had reached the point where I had had a remarkable career, significant impact in the world and the gift of several decades of self-development. And I found myself wondering, will I ever find the person that can meet me where I am now?

And who can grow with me for the next 40 years as I become the things I can’t even possibly imagine and dream of?

Jodi: Thank you for sharing that. Now you said you spent eight years dating prior to the date we’re going to discuss, I presume.

Janine: Yes.

Jodi: How were you feeling about dating after those eight years had transpired?

Janine: I love that question and I felt so many different ways during different parts of that experience. I remember when I left my marriage, I spent several months coming to grips with the enormity of the change that I had brought, and then got very curious, after a quarter century of being with one person, what it would be like to meet and date other people.

And so being a very analytical person, I created a spreadsheet and embarked on 80 dates over the next year and a half, and was very methodical about it and really felt like a cultural anthropologist at that time. I had had the gift of many of my personal needs being met in marriage. I felt like I had been partnered.

So when I left my marriage, I felt like I was coming, not from a place of scarcity, but from a place of curiosity and excitement.

And so I went on all kinds of dates with people that I would never consider going out with more than maybe twice, maybe three times, just because I was trying to have the sense of what it’s like to be so many different ways of being human.

I got to try on for a night or for an hour, or when things really didn’t go well for 30 minutes, what it was like to be another human for just a little bit. And I could picture myself, what would my life be like if I were with this kind of person?

And it was a wonderful process of self-discovery. And it allowed me to feel like I was experiencing the world in a whole new way

One of the roles of dating is to explore who we are and also to find people who can mirror the things that we are wanting to grow and to become. It’s a way of cultivating our sense of self in relationship with someone else.

It was probably the beginning of COVID when I reached a point of thinking, is dating, making sense for me anymore? Does this really serve me? What are the ways that I abandoned myself when I go out with someone more than a couple of times and recognize very early on that this is not a partnership that will last even a medium amount of time? Why devote my energies, my very precious life energies, towards something that won’t truly fulfill me?

And so I had reached a point in the summer of COVID and all of the challenges that, that time that I was thinking, I would probably not be partnered for the rest of my life and recognized the joy and the richness of what my life was and decided to devote myself to simply making the best of the life that I did have, but being available now and then for dates. So that’s what proceeded this.

Jodi: You experienced all different types of interactions with different types of men that enriched your life experience. You spoke about abandoning yourself, or “not abandoning myself” is what you said, by spending time with men who were not the right fit for you.

Why did you look at it in that light?

Janine: It was quite intentional. As we frequently find in this extended life journey of self-examination the same ideas and issues and patterns keep arising time and time again, no matter how much work we do, no matter how skillful we become, no matter how many tools we have in our toolkit, it’s still the same material that we work with just in different circumstances, in different manners.

And so I probably first heard that phrase, “What are the ways that you abandon yourself in relationship?” maybe a decade, two decades earlier. And it didn’t land so solidly the first dozen or two dozen times that I was asked these questions. And then at a certain point, we really began to work very closely with the material that still arises.

So I, like many people, I had little affirmations on my mirror and they were the qualities that I wanted to embody in my moment to moment existence.  “Joyful, fully alive and vibrant, kind, loving, wise,” and at the bottom, the longest one was the phrase “Never abandoned myself.” And so when we embark on journeys to really discover who we are to become aware of what our true nature.

It’s this shedding of things that don’t serve that really fall by the wayside. So I was quite intentional about that.

Jodi: Clearly. I love that you had all those affirmations on your mirror. What a great way to start your day, looking at all of that and in taking it all in and trying to consume all of those positive aspirations and into every day that you live. That’s tremendous.

Janine: It is a practice that’s available to all of us. And I feel grateful to be so much closer to a moment, a moment, moment by moment, appreciation of where I placed my attention, where I devote my energies, the people I surround myself with and the ways that I shaped my thoughts so that my experiences become what it is that I seek.

Jodi: As you started to discuss the eight years that you spent in the dating world prior to this date we’re about to get into, you mentioned that you had created a spreadsheet. I’m intrigued! Was that spreadsheet just use to track the names and contact information of the men that you met? Or were there….

Janine: You know that’s not true. (Laughter)

Jodi: I know that was not true. (Laughter) Okay then, let’s get into it. What else? What other parameters?

Janine: Jodi, that would be a bunch of stickies on a bathroom mirror. (Laughter) On a spreadsheet, you need a lot more columns than that.

Jodi: Okay. Let’s talk about the different parameters that you had added into that spreadsheet. Please share that with me and all the listeners.

Janine: I went about this because I knew that it would require consistent methodical effort. It’s a numbers game, finding the right person that matches all of the parameters that you seek. And so it was a way of just like any large project that we undertake in our professional lives or big tasks that we do personally, there were many steps to it.

And so, using this tool of tracking who am I going help with? What are the things that matter? The people that they name like a child? Where they’re from, all of those things, you know, it’s kind to be able to, if you are going to see someone again, to be able to pick up the conversation where you left off, even if you’re seeing several people, in consecutive dates and I was very efficient in my process.

So I would generally save dating day for a certain day of the week. And then I would go generally on three or four first dates, half an hour. I was not going to devote more time to it than that. You can get a good sense of if there’s an energetic fit or just even a general orientation to life in similar ways.

I would make the choice at 30 minutes and I’m abandoning myself by devoting another 30 minutes. And if I was, I would be very clear and I would simply say, “Thank you so much for making time for me today. I’ve enjoyed our chat and I need to be moving on now.”

My perception of it is, after having had more than a hundred dates, that I had a lot of clarity about the kind of person that I would want to see a second time or third time or a fourth time.

And that I had devoted 20 years to understanding myself and how I want to move in the world. And I had a lot of clarity about that, and I still do

Jodi: The date that we are going to now get into happen during the pandemic. Where were you in your life prior to the time when this date took place?

Janine: I had recently come to the conclusion that I would not be dating any, if at all. And every few weeks…I still had all of my three or four dating apps that I would look at.

I did go on a handful of dates during the first few months of COVID, socially distanced, outdoor hiking, very far away on the other side of the path, but had really come to a place of, I want to say comfort, but I’m also recognizing there’s elements of resignation and of acceptance and determination to lead a full and rich life, but probably letting this piece of my life go because the qualities that I hope to find in someone mirroring the things that I love and treasure about myself were probably just going to be. Too tall of an order.

Jodi: That means that you had gotten to this place because you had accepted and fully embraced the love you have for yourself and that you are enough.

Janine:. Yes, yes. It’s such a great revelation and such an important place to arrive. And, you know, sadly for many of us, it happens later in life. I, one of the unusual aspects of my life is that I’m a twin.

So I like to say, not only am I an extrovert, but that I’ve been partnered since the first cell of my existence. And so, I had believed that partnership was necessary in a normal function of the life that I wanted to live. And I had reached the point, recognizing that I didn’t want to abandon myself in relationship anymore, and that I was willing to let that go.

Jodi: But you didn’t.

Janine:  I didn’t. I hung in there a little bit longer. (Laughter)

Jodi: Okay. Let’s proceed then with the story. So COVID….so it’s early months. COVID is raging.

Janine: Yes. COVID is raging that summer. I’m just very isolated at this point. And I’m in a region of the country that took it very seriously. So we were very consistently isolated.

So every few weeks I would open up my apps and just take a look. And on this particular day, I opened up one of the apps and there was an image of someone I literally like gasped. (Laughter)

And then I read the profile and I was so amazed to just be met and so many different parts of my career, my intellectual life and my education and my activities and my spiritual life. And so he had sent a message. He found me and he said, “Well, I don’t know if this is going to work, but I’m going to give it a shot. Tell me how you’re doing today.”

And he said that because he was in a different part of the country. And I didn’t notice that I just looked at the image and the profile and it was like, how can I not respond? And so I wrote back “The universe must know something that we don’t, because I’m responding. I’m great. How are you?”

Jodi: I was quite a response. And this is Kevin who you were responding to, correct?

Janine: Yes. Yes.

Jodi: What did he do? Did he immediately write back.

Janine: Absolutely. We started texting in the app, morning and night until we arranged….well, the next day he said, let’s talk. And at that, at that point, I said, “Hey, let’s go for a hike.”

And he said, “Well, I don’t know if I’m going to make that. I’m a little bit far away.” And then I finally realized he was an airplane ride away.

And so, at this point I thought, “Well, okay, maybe I’m going to find my partner in another part of the country. We’ll cross that bridge when we get there.”

So I said, “Let’s go for a hike and I’ll meet you at the top of the mountain, near my house. And you can pick where you’re going to be.”

Jodi: Clever! That’s really clever!

Janine: It was so much fun! And it was a sunrise chat. So I got, got to the top of the mountain and the sun was rising and it was a beautiful hike and he was on the beach. And so we ended up talking for two and a half hours that first morning, and it was just an incredible beginning.

Jodi: You sat there on the mountain top and he sat there on the beach with your phones and decent cell coverage?

Janine: Yes

Jodi: And you just talked? Did you actually see one another or was it a phone conversation?

Janine: I am so annoyed about this part because of course, you know, I am originally from the south, so I, you know, put myself together. Um, and I thought we were doing a Zoom call and then, you know, ego doesn’t exist just for the, the female part of, of the world when I said, okay, let’s zoom.

And he’s like, wait a minute. I didn’t know. Um, I can’t do video. I’m not ready. (Laughter)

Jodi: Oh, it must’ve been such a disappointment for you.

Janine: I still can remember it. I was really disappointed, but you know, you let these things go right and focus on what matters.

Jodi: What happened next?

Janine: I spent the next week talking on the phone, doing zoom calls. And I was, um, at the end of that first week, I told him, “Hey, it’s, COVID. I’ve decided to rent a camper van and to climb in the van with my college-aged daughter. And we’re going to be gone for the next three weeks. And we’re going to travel all over the Pacific Northwest and all the way to the upper Midwest. So I’m going to be gone and out of cell reception for three weeks and I will catch you when I get home.”

And he said, “That sounds awesome.” And then I was gone the first two days on the road having an incredible adventure with my daughter. But I realized, “Oh, I really want to talk to him.” And so I called that first night, we were in the middle of the forest, outside a highway in the middle of the woods in Oregon trying to find cell reception.

And I was so happy to talk to him. And eventually what happened is we were talking almost every day and it was this unending series of me trying to find cell reception in Safeway parking lots in some weird town in the middle of nowhere. And it was just wonderful.

Jodi: What were you missing?

Janine: The intimacy, the connection, the ways that he saw things similarly and radically differently and the stories that he shared. But most of all, he’s just remarkably socially, emotionally intelligent, and his level of vulnerability and honesty and realness just felt like we were creating a real connection.

And that I could very early on reveal myself the things that mattered to me, my hurts and pains, my joys, my delights, all from a place of just real intimacy. And it happened pretty much from the second phone call.

Jodi: Really?

Janine: Yeah.

Jodi: Wow! He was so vulnerable with you. And, and so emotionally intelligence that you decided you could trust this man, right away.

Janine: Absolutely. Yes. And by this time I had been on more than a hundred dates and he had done the same amount of work in his life, so that by the time we found one another, there was nothing, but the ability to be our real selves without defenses, without hiding, without fear, just curiosity and delight ever unfolding layers.

Jodi: He had been married before and had kids?

Janine: Yes. He also had, yes. He also had a quarter century marriage and we each have a daughter in college. So very similar in that way. Remarkably, strangely similar, a lot

Jodi: A lot of similarities, as you say, a lot of alignment.

Janine: Yes. Yes. And so there were the practical similarities of similar socioeconomic levels, similar education levels, similar career attainment levels, similar approaches to both, achieving and engaging in the world and also deep inner work.

And that combination is very uncommon. We were very excited to see that in someone else. And that was very motivating.

Jodi: Your daughter had a front row seat literally right in the camper van, as this was all unfolding. What was she saying to you? And what were her observations about Kevin and about you as this romance was beginning from afar.

Janine: What a perceptive question. I so appreciate that. And it really is. The difference between her experience and her engagement with me and Kevin’s daughter’s experience and her engagement with him are really interesting contrasts and very much who they each are individually.

I would just try to go and have my experience on the phone alone. And every so often she would make some ride comment, “Gee Mom, you are really needing to get out and make a lot of phone calls.” And I’m like, yes, I am. (Laughter)

And at the same time I was getting, um, videos of him dancing with his daughter in the kitchen, having dance party. And then, she’s like waving to me and then sending it to me. It’s beautiful because there’s space for each of them to be who they are in their relationship with their parent. And he and his daughter are very close, enabled to share all of these things.

And my daughter and I are very close, but there’s an element of privacy around our dating lives that we don’t share that much. And so we talk about that a lot as well of, “I want this.” She’ll say “I want this part of my life to be private,” and I want her to be who she wants to be. So it was really sweet, but, I got tired of trying to find privacy and Safeway parking lots. (Laughter)

Jodi: You eventually took the calls in the camper van?

Janine: Eventually, but here’s the funny part of this story. My daughter and I were gone for three weeks. And on the second week that we were gone, Kevin said as I was telling him the adventures that we were having and all of them amazing experiences that we were having, he said, “Oh my gosh, this sounds like so much fun. I totally want to do this with you one day.”

And I said, “Okay, let’s do it now.” And he said, “Okay.” And so before we got off the phone, we made plans that he would rent a camper van for a month. And that a week after I returned home from my adventure with my daughter, he would drive up or we would get in the camper van and we would go away for a month. And I called it “The Fish or Cut Bait Tour.”

And we both agreed. We know each other ourselves really well. We feel like there is remarkable potential in this relationship and a lot of really unusual synchronicities in the paths of our lives and coming together with a person like this deserves devotion and attention and focus.

And so we knew we could get along for a month if it didn’t work out romantically, but we wanted to step into making a commitment to see, is there something really here? And we’re going to give it the time and the intention that it deserves to really figure it out.

So to me, “fish or cut bait” really means clarity about who I am, what my intentions are, how I want to move in the world and who I want to be with as I do that.

I don’t have any frustration or last straw experience around that phrase. But rather, how am I going to get to where I want to be and how can I do it efficiently, cleanly and with loving kindness?

Jodi: The answer to that question in this circumstance was, have Kevin rent a camper van and take a road trip together for a month! (Laughter)

So you did, but before we get to that, I’m curious…time had to transpire between that decision and he actually showing up with the camper van. What was going through your head during that time and through your body? Were you anxious? Excited?

Janine: Oh gosh, no, I wasn’t anxious. I was excited. But a really important practice for me is not to anticipate, but to rather to be in the present moment.

So I had happiness that that was going to happen in the future, but I was just really focused on being in my trip with my daughter. And so would reserve the times to be excited or talking about it when I was on the phone with Kevin, calling from the middle of the woods or the Safeway parking lot.

So I had also a lot of peace and a lot of curiosity of, “Oh, I wonder what’s going to happen?” But not anxiety. I think that I have such a sense of self.  I knew that if things didn’t go well, that I would have the ability to get out of the situation.

I grew up in the south and we have this idea, um, that my mom shared with me, which is “Always have your mad money.”

So if you’re going on a date, you always want to be able to get out of the date on your own without relying on anyone else so that you call the shots. So when I was growing up, that meant, having money to get to a payphone and make the phone call to say, mom, come get me.

Jodi: You needed a dime at that time, maybe a quarter? (Laughter)

Janine: Exactly!

Jodi: Now we don’t even have pay phones. You can’t even do that! (Laughter)

Janine: So I had my metaphorical mad money, right? If we ended up at the edge of the Grand Canyon and we just couldn’t take it anymore, I knew I could get home and didn’t need any help doing that and had the ability to make that choice without rancor, without disappointment, without anything, but just clarity of like, “Oh, this isn’t working.” So I didn’t have any anxiety. I just had a lot of autonomy.

Jodi: You and your daughter conclude your road trip together. You get home. You probably unpack. Clean up a bit. The week passes. Take us through ….

Janine: No, the week does not pass, Jodi.

Jodi: It doesn’t pass? Okay.

Janine: No. (Laughter)

Jodi: A plot twist!

Janine: I get home on Wednesday. And we talked the night that I get home. The plan was that he was going to take us away for a romantic weekend. And after three days we would come back and then we would get in the car to go pick up the camper van.

But I did not want to wait for that time. I said, “I want you to drive up here now.” So the next morning he got in the car and he made the 10 hour drive.

Jodi: What happened when he arrived at your house?

Janine: Well, as he tells it, he was driving into the driveway and he had been pondering for a couple of hours what would happen when he got there. Would we hug, would we kiss? Would we be awkward or weird? And that was what was playing out in his mind as he was driving down the freeway.

I didn’t have any of that experience. I was having my full workday. I was working and could see the end of the driveway down the road. And when he pulled in, I just hopped up and got all excited and went running out the door in my bare feet and running down the driveway. And he pulled over the car halfway up the driveway and put it in Park and jumped out and we just started hugging and kissing. (Laughter)

Jodi: It’s straight out of a movie! I can see it right now. Wow! What a moment you two shared!

Janine: Yeah, it was really, yeah. From the first moment of our being together, physically and energetically, which is….I believe that the truest expression of our human existence is like how it feels to stand next to someone, the comfort, the excitement, the curiosity, the delight, the appreciation, the miraculous disbelief. It was all just in that moment. It was remarkable!

Jodi: What happened next?

Janine: Well, it was actually a time….we live in a part of the country, which is basically half of the country these days, where there were extensive fires. And so our plans for the romantic getaway moved from one location, a couple of hours away to us just being in my home.

And we spent the next three days just getting to know one another. Talking all night long, just sharing everything. And I think, maybe the most moving part of this experience for me was towards the end of the first evening…I have had the experience throughout my life of periodically hearing a very strong voice in my head.

And it almost always was a message for someone else. A pregnancy that was coming. A move to another country. A message about what they were thinking. And they rarely came for me. It was almost always around physical injury or an illness, very remarkable experiences, like telling someone they’re pregnant and they find out the next day that they’re pregnant.

And this voice that evening spoke to me repeatedly. And maybe your listeners can perceive, I live in my heart, but I also really live in my mind. And so being logical, being thoughtful, being critical in my analysis, being rational, are ways of living that are important to me and this voice kept coming and it just wasn’t very rational.

And so I just chalked the voice up to my yearning, or my hope, or my excitement and my amazement at this remarkable human.

And as I’m telling the story, I’m becoming emotional because I’m just remembering the enormity of this experience. Because when the voice spoke the fourth time, I felt like I couldn’t ignore the voice anymore.

And I said to him, “I’ve heard this message four times now and I can’t ignore it anymore. Will you marry me?”

Jodi: Wow!

Janine: Yeah. But that’s not the amazing part of the story. The amazing part is that he stood there and this look of mystery and amazement came over his face and he said, you don’t know, but the first decade of my life I spent teaching tens of thousands of people, how to listen to the voice of intuition in their minds and to live, responding to that voice.

And I’ve written multiple books about this. And because you’ve asked in this way, I say “Yes.”

Jodi: He said, “Yes.”

Janine: Yeah.

Jodi: Incredible!

Janine: And that was a moment in time. What was truly incredible is the way that level of connection and clarity of intention and commitment to truly believing this is meant to be…how it transformed that next month of exploration and “fish or cut bait” into, no we’re together. This is how we do this together.

And so since that time, our relationship has just been remarkably easy, fruitful, delightful, amazing, collaborative, and just a real miracle.

Jodi: What an extraordinary story!

Janine: Yeah, the best part of it is that, uh, in a week it will be a year since we met. And since that time, that day 356 days ago, we’ve only been apart five days. And we have woven our own lives together. Our families’ lives together. Our extended communities lives together and now we are beginning to work together.

And so we actually were really embarrassed and shy and hesitant to share the story of our meeting and our first month together for many months, because we know it’s so over the top. It seems like the actions of people who don’t know themselves well, who respond to that “falling in love moment” and completely lose themselves in it.

And it was just the opposite. Psychologist speak of this time at the beginning of relationships, this intense bonding and the exclusion of other things it’s called “limerence.”

And it’s studied in relationships understood as this really serious bonding time, but also not a lot of logic or rationality to it. And the experience that we shared feels both deeply rational and profoundly miraculous.

Jodi: Have the two of you gotten married?

Janine: No, we have not done that. But we have asked one another to marry more than 500 times and every time one of us asks we pause and we reflect, and then we make the choice. And every time we have said, “Yes.”

Jodi: You are consistently then reaffirming your commitment to one another. By asking an answering that question repeatedly.

Janine: Yes, we consider ourselves life partners. We joke that we’re on the 40 year plan. (Laughter) We’ve made a solid and firm commitment that we will be together for 40 years.

And we are planning to marry, but we want the pieces of our lives that remain unsettled some business issues to fall into place. So that there’s clarity.

Maybe it was irrational in the beginning and rational in, in the subsequent month. But yeah, we’re committed and we’re partners, we’re life partners.

Jodi: How long would you say that your first date with Kevin lasted?

Janine: I find myself moved to tears that, you know, we bring, especially in this culture, like this set of stories and projections and hopes and dreams for the first date. All of what we hope for our romantic lives are just crushed on this one concept of the first date.

It’s a heavy load. And yet when I touch into, like the sense of possibility and the hope and the dreams and the belief of what can be made in many ways, that quality is still very present in our hour to hour existence together.

We many days hug many times and frequently say things like “You are my miracle,” or “Thank you for finding me” or “Thank you for not giving up” or “Thank you for believing,” because that’s what brought us together.

Jodi: That’s beautiful. And you were brought together during an extraordinarily challenging time for everyone in this country and around the world. A dark time.

Janine: Yes.

Jodi: But such light came into your life.

Janine: You know, this is the reality of the human existence. That life can be beautiful and tragic and hopeful and crushing and amazing and painful all at the same time. I feel so grateful to have had the experience of deep connection, intimacy, partnership, wise, beautiful friendship, delight, and knowing at the same time that it is a period of deep struggle for many of isolation, for many of hopelessness, for many and of loss. And so being able to hold the light in my life and be present for the darkness is the path of being human.

Jodi: You stated that so fabulously and what you just said is true, in my opinion.

Janine: Yes. And this is the gift of being present to our feelings and our emotions and allowing them to express themselves. Any emotion that we experience will not last, whether it’s intense joy, a sense of connection, a sense of despair, a sense of sadness. If we allow that emotion, it will eventually transform into another experience.

Our lives as humans move from moment to moment. And so, being able to witness and hold the complexity of all of these emotions and experience at the same time is simply a path that allows us to be most human.

Jodi: Early in our conversation, you stated that you had come to the point where you’d embraced a future as an independent woman. Not long thereafter, you met a man who is now your life partner.

Continuing as that independent woman would have given you a very meaningful existence, no doubt. But Kevin came into your world and the two of you are now a strong partnership and loving partnership from everything that you have shared.

What practical advice do you have for the women listening to us who can relate to where you were with your journey before you met Kevin?

Janine: It’s hubris to believe that I have advice for a particular person, yet having said that, what I learned about myself may resonate for others, which is this. I am amazing! I am precious! I deserve to live the life that I wish for and that compromising what I want, need and can have, is only abandoning myself. And if I choose to abandon myself, how can I expect anyone else not to?

Jodi: Very sage advice. Thank you. Thank you Janine, for coming on the show to share your really remarkable tale of coming together with Kevin, as you did, getting engaged a few hours after the two of you met in person for the first time and then proceeding on together for almost a year to form the strong bonds and the loving partnership that the two of you are creating together.

Janine: Yes. Thank you for the opportunity for me to share this. I know the work that you do is helping so many and in times of loneliness or wistfulness, having a friend to help guide us really helps us turn towards the light. So thank you for your work.

Jodi: I’m really touched by that. Thank you. Thank you so much.

The post Janine and Kevin appeared first on First Date Stories.

How do you handle things when a date you’re excited to go on leads to the ultimate dating disappointment? Sandy knows the answer. She and the Liverpool Dude had matched on Bumble. They talked for hours on the phone and texted multiple times. There was a palpable connection. She said “yes” to a first date. Listen to discover what happened next.

Season 4, Episode 11

To learn more about Sandy Weiner and her dating and relationship coaching for women over 40, visit LastFirstDateRadio.com.

Listen to the Last First Date Radio Podcast.

Join the “Your Last First Date” Facebook Group.

Get a copy of Sandy’s book, Becoming a Woman of Value: How to Thrive in Life and Love.

Visit TheWomenofValue.com.

Join the Woman of Value Club.

Connect with Sandy on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube.

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Jodi:  Welcome Sandy! It’s fabulous to have you as my guest this episode. Thank you so much for coming on the show.

Sandy: Oh, I’m so excited to be here Jodi! Thank you for having me.

Jodi: This is going to be terrific. We are going to get into a date that you went on and talk all about it, but not yet. I first want to ask that you share some things about yourself with our listeners, so they get a sense of you.

Sandy:  Sure. So, my name is Sandy Wiener. I’m 65 years old, live in Stamford, Connecticut, and I have three children. My oldest is in her thirties and lives in Israel and has three beautiful children. My middle is a boy and he is living in Stamford, actually moving to a town nearby. And my youngest is living in LA.

All three kids are really creative. They’re artists and musicians and bakers and fashion designers and all kinds of cool stuff, which they get from their parents. So I was an artist my entire life until I became a life coach right after my divorce. And I’ll get into that in a minute. And my ex-husband is a comedian, a professional comedian, and we worked together most of the time we were married. I was one of the head writers for show we did for Nickelodeon for children and, did a lot of cool things. I edited film and directed him and learned I had skills I never knew I had.

But my marriage was not a good marriage. I stayed a long time, cause I’m not a quitter. I like to try and make things work. And now I know that some things are just….you’re working too hard at something that’s not going to ever work. And so I finally came to that conclusion after 23 year. I divorced my husband and I realized that a lot of who I had been had been kind of diminished. I lost a lot of myself in the marriage and I was trying to reclaim those parts after my divorce.

And so I was thinking like, what do I want to do? The art that I had done. I painted furniture. I did a whole bunch of things for people, but I never really felt fully valued for the work that I put in because art is very labor intensive, and a lot of people would nickel and dime me and I just didn’t feel valued. And so I thought, you know, back in 12th grade in my yearbook, it says, “Sandy is the go-to person for any time you have a problem. She will help you.” And so that was who I was.

And then I decided to go to become a life coach. I didn’t know what that was. A friend of mine said, “Hey, why don’t you look into this?” And it was perfect for me because it’s very goal-oriented, which I am. There…It’s practical, but it’s also deep and it’s also creative. And I even brought creativity and art into my practice doing workshops in the beginning. And I sometimes bring them back when I do retreats. So I became a dating coach after my first two years of coaching because…I was coaching, my friends who were dating and making a mess of it and I remember one friend who I used to take walks with every day. She, she was dating this really toxic guy who was telling her that he’s not at all available for a relationship. And she said, “What do you think he meant by that?” (Laughter)

Jodi: I think he just told you what he meant by that. (Laughter)

Sandy: But it’s amazing how many people don’t see what’s right in front of them. And I was helping her with her profile. I was writing profiles and helping her with her photos and, you know, doing all the online dating stuff with her. And I had no idea what I was doing, but I, I was good at it and I said, “Okay, this, this is a really fun thing to do.” And I segued my coaching into dating and relationship. And I have been doing that for almost 14 years.

After I think about three years ago, I realized the part that I love most about my work is helping women find their value. I was finding that the part about like teaching women, how to flirt or, I don’t know, you know, just kind of the nitty gritty of what a lot of people teach in dating, was not as interesting to me as the deeper work.

And so I started a new business. It’s called “The Woman of Value.” I have a Woman of Value Club, which is a membership program where women come every month and learn about dating, relationships, skills, all the things that are important to be a better human, really, and to relate better to other people.

And I also authored a book a year ago, about a year ago, during the pandemic, it’s called Becoming a Woman of Value: How to Thrive in Life and Love. Just being able to see people transform and own their value as I have after my divorce is the most gratifying thing.

Jodi: First and foremost, congratulations on launching your children so successfully into their lives! That is a tremendous accomplishment. And you have been on quite a personal odyssey these years.

It’s so fascinating that it’s led you to this point and that you reference back to your yearbook from high school as, as a catalyst to help you move forward. I love that. Uh, and that you have gotten to this place where you have really found that grounding oneself in their value is of the utmost importance in being successful in life.

Sandy: Well, thank you for acknowledging that launching children is an accomplishment because I honestly think that every, every relationship is important in our lives. You know, whether it’s our work relationships, our children, if we have them, our significant others, our family, all of them really are what makes up our lives and how we show up in one is usually how we show up in all of them.

And parenting for me was an opportunity to sort of change the legacy of how I was raised, which was. Feelings and needs. What are those? I don’t know….which is not to put my parents down. But most parents just had no idea how to honor or talk about feelings. It was more about like “Just get over it. Don’t think about that.” And a lot of fixing and a lot of yelling and mind reading and all the things that I wanted to change in my parenting and also in my coaching practice. Because we just don’t have the skills to communicate effectively, to know how to set boundaries around the things that really matter to us.

And so I…my kids have said to me, it’s pretty amazing that you came out the way you did from your family and that you were able to kind of rise up and that’s what I want for them. And it’s what I want for everybody.

Jodi: I hear you. I think that “the Greatest Generation” wasn’t really encouraged to be as expressive and to put things out there that were in their minds. You were just to forge forward and keep it to yourself and be tough and move forward. A survivalist mentality, perhaps. I’m not trying to psychoanalyze your family, but I think that there’s what you spoken about is something that a lot of people have experienced of a certain age with their grandparents or parents.

Sandy: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you put it so nicely.

Jodi: But we’re in a different time now.

Sandy: Yeah, we are. And you know, I still made mistakes. I was trying to figure it out, but one of the most pivotal things I think for me was reading a book called How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and How to Listen So Kids Will Talk, because I never realized you have to actually listen to your kids that they should just respect you because you’re the mom. And the moment that I started to really empathize, and it was really the beginning of empathy for me.

I didn’t know anything about empathy. To change my relationship with my children, they felt heard, I felt respected. They felt respected. And years later, when I was a dating coach, I created a course called “How to Talk to Men So Men Will Listen and How to Listen So Men Will Talk.” So it was based on that book, but it was like, we don’t know how to talk to each other.

Jodi: Right, right. Well, empathy is a cornerstone of any relationship, isn’t it?

Sandy:  It sure is. And we’re so bad at it. Like we think we have to come in and fix and, and diminish somebody’s feelings so that they’ll just move on and get over it. I remember my very first retreat that I had. One of my members had to leave early because somebody she was so close to was put into hospice care. She was devastated. And so she flew back to LA from Connecticut to be with her family.

And all I was watching as the other women in the retreat, were trying to give her empathy and one of them said, um, “Oh, you’re going to be okay” or “Don’t worry about it.” Some were crying more than she was so that she was then taking care of them.

And I watched the whole thing because I’ve been in situations where people didn’t know what to say. And I thought it was a great opportunity, even though it was for dating and people were looking to go on their last first date, I said, “This is a really important skill and let’s talk about empathy and how do we give empathy?” And I said, “I know you were all trying to do your best, but let’s talk about how we can do better.”

And it was a great in the moment lesson on how to really sit with somebody, how to really just hold them where they are and not try to take it away or make it even worse. But we don’t have the skills to do it, and I think it’s just important for us to learn them.

Jodi: It’s not a typical thing to do, to step back from a moment in time that you’re experiencing and to assess it, especially in a group format like that. But this presented that opportunity for you and your retreat attendees, which I would presume was rather powerful for them when they reflected back on, on their actions, and their  behavior to help their fellow retreat participant move forward.

Sandy: I hope so. I hope it stayed with them because that was the intention was not, not to shame them because they didn’t do a right, but to really start to learn the skills that they need to take those forward into all their relationship.

Jodi: We need to learn skills when we are dating because dating requires practice and it requires one to be out there trying different things, being vulnerable, being engaged with, in conversation, with, and present with whoever it is you’re on a date with in different ways. Would you agree?

Sandy:  Yeah, for sure. There’s so many skills that we need to learn, and it’s amazing when you practice those how much better your relationships get and also just how much more empowered you feel when you’re dating, like you’re actually a choice and you get to look at somebody and decide how they would fit into your life. Not just, “I hope he picks me and oh my God, I’m so anxious on the date.”

You know, I used to date like that and now, and, I’m still single. And I’m going to talk about my date in a moment. But it’s such a different experience where I come in confidently, you know, just kind of not full of nerves, but to have a good time and to connect with a human being.

Jodi: I reached that point on my dating journey as well. For me, it was a, I guess, a combination of things coming together at a certain time in life. One was age, just being more mature, being more confident, having more, a lot of experience dating. (Laughter)

But also not requiring someone else to validate me…getting to that point of, as you were speaking about in your wonderful book, Becoming a Woman of Value, my own value in my own self-worth, which every woman, every person should strive to get to. And, it’s tough to stay there all the time because of just the challenges life will throw at you, but really to try to be grounded in that place.

So you’ve come on to talk about this date that you went on and you came to this date after a good amount of dating experience, right?

Sandy: Oh yeah.

Jodi: And I am excited to hear the story. So why don’t we get into it?

Sandy: So, we’re going to call this guy, “Liverpool Dude.”

Jodi: I love that! Liverpool Dude. I can be accent is just already in my head.

Sandy: Well, that’s what pulled me in as so many women who see that somebody from England or South Africa or Australia, and you’re like, “Ooh, I just want to hear what he sounds like.” So that was me.

He connected on Bumble with me and he was cute. And he was also 15 years younger, which was very flattering…that he said right away, “I’m attracted to your intelligence.” He seemed really bright and he paid attention to my profile. So he asked me questions. Like I have a two truths and a lie. My two truths and a lie where I can stand on my head, I Drive a stick shift and I wrote a New York times bestseller.

Jodi: That’s terrific! You can stand on your head?

Sandy: I can. (Laughter)

Jodi: They’re all impressive, but the first one….it’s all impressive, but wow! That’s remarkable! (Laughter)

Sandy: It’s just one of the skills. It’s like this thing I could do, like my whole life without really trying, but, um, yeah. And driving a stick shift is also a great conversation starter because I’ve always pretty much almost always driven a stick shift.

So this happened about a month ago during the pandemic and he seemed really cute and really attentive. And we got on a call pretty quickly. And of course, because I wanted to hear his Liverpool accent. He was a musician when he was younger. There were so many really intriguing things about him and you know, right away he said, “I don’t care that you’re 15 years older than I am.” I like people for who they are, not how old they are.

And I said, “Yeah, me too. I date people of all different types and ages and distances. I don’t care.” After that first call, I think we talked for like an hour and a half on the Bumble phone, so I hadn’t yet exchanged my number. And then we exchanged phone numbers and my son was in the other room and he said, “Mom, you spent an hour and a half on the phone on a first call. You’re breaking your own rules!” (Laughter)

Jodi: He’s keeping you honest. (Laughter)

Sandy: He does. And usually I don’t do it. It’s like, first of all, I usually don’t have a lot to say to somebody in an hour and a half on a first call, but we had so much to talk about. So I kind of went with the flow and he said, “You know, let’s talk again tomorrow.” And I didn’t hear from him the next day. But we had set a tentative date. So let’s say this was a Thursday night. We had set a tentative day for that Sunday.

I was waiting to hear confirmation about the date and I didn’t hear from him. And I was like, “Wow! We had such great conversation. I’m going to reach out to him.” And I don’t usually do that either, but there was something about him that intrigued me.

So I was tempted to reem him out (Laughter)….show him who’s a woman of value! And I actually talked to a friend who’s also a coach and I said, “Talk me off the ledge. And how do you feel about me sending him a text? And what would that text say?” So we kind of worked it out together and kept it very positive; kind of non-attached to the outcome. I just thought, we had a good connection. I don’t know what happened.

It was just a curious and kind of playful text and it was something like, “I really enjoyed our conversation the other night. I thought we were going to get together on Sunday and then crickets. And I’m just wondering if everything’s ok?”

And so he wrote back immediately and said, “I’m so sorry. My daughter needed me and I had to go into the city.” Okay. So he goes, “Can you talk later tonight?” And we talked again for a long time. And then we really made a date. So we were going to meet the following Sunday and we set up a time. And then we said, we would check in later in the week.

And he did check in with me again. I think we spoke Thursday night and he said, “You know, I live like two hours away, but it’s fine. I like driving. I’m in my car all the time and I’m thinking that’s great.” And then he asked me again, “Are you sure you’re okay dating somebody who’s 50?”

And I said “Of course.” And he said, “Well, you don’t look 65 and I think you’re attractive. And I’m looking forward to meeting you. I’ll call you when I’m on my way.”

And so we had booked a restaurant. We were going to meet for lunch. Sunday morning I didn’t hear from him. And I thought, “Okay, he’ll call me right as he’s getting in. And I’ll leave the house when I hear from him.”

About 20 minutes before we were supposed to meet, I decided to call him. And the phone went right to voicemail and I thought, “Okay, he could still be coming.” But I had a bad feeling about it. I actually….that morning, something told me in my gut that this date is not going to happen. And I was right. He stood me up! He blocked my number! He disconnected from me on Bumble and I was, as they say in Liverpool, I was gob smacked!

Jodi: Wow!

Sandy: Yeah, this had never happened to me before. Um, so I sat there in my living room and I was really proud of myself for not having gone to the restaurant because a lot of people just do that and they sit there and they feel really embarrassed that they waited. And I know you have a great story in your book about that. But she made it into a great date in the end with a girlfriend, with her girlfriend, which I thought was great.

And look, you can go to a restaurant and order yourself a meal and make the best of it too. But I sat at home for a few minutes and processed it and then I was like, “Okay, get yourself out of the house. Go take a walk. Go do something and just get out of this head space.” Cause I did not want to be wallowing in self-pity and anger and it was great.

I took a walk by the beach. I breathed in the salty beach air. I felt so much better and I stayed out for a while. And then I came home and you know what? I, because I had never met him, I was able to really process it pretty quickly. And I decided to share my story with my, my people, my audience. And I created a video because part of me was a little embarrassed that it happened to me. And then I said, “You know what? I’m human and I want to share that I go through what they go through.”

And it was one of my most popular videos. People really appreciated that I was vulnerable with them. And I shared some takeaways, which I think are really important. And I can share them if you’d like.

Jodi: Yes, but before you do and I absolutely want to delve into that, I just want to say “Bravo!” Bravo, because you’ve done something that isn’t comfortable for most people, which is to come forward and say “I was stood up.” And it takes a lot to do that and to put that forward because many people have been stood up, which is all wrong and is such a shame. But that usually isn’t really talked about.

And so you’re putting it forward to say, “Hey, this happens. And not only did it happen to me, but I’m going to help you” Now we’ll delve into that so that we can help listeners who have been where you were navigate through that experience more successfully and get back to feeling like they’re a woman of value. So, please share your advice.

Sandy: Okay! So this is for anybody who has been stood up…it hurts! It is painful, but you can do something about it. And when you have a plan of action, it’s empowering. Just like when I got up, got out of my house, it was empowering and it helped me to really heal quickly.

So the first thing I think is really important is to feel what you’re feeling. We tend to, and I do. Um, I tend to like stuff, the emotions out don’t be angry. Don’t be disappointed. Don’t be anything because that’s how I was raised. As I said before, you know, it’s just, just soldier on and soldiering on keeps those feelings in. It’s much quicker to go through the feelings because they come out the other side and they’re not going to stay with you. So take a few minutes and just figure out what emotions are coming up for you. Anger, embarrassment, disappointment, whatever it is, feel it. And then let it go.

Jodi: Let it out, don’t let it fester because it only does, does damage to your psyche.

Sandy: Yeah. And maybe you need to write it out. Maybe you need to call a friend and talk it out. But however you process, do it.

And the second thing that’s really important is not to ruminate on “the why.” We tend to focus on why did people do what they did to us. And we will probably never know why. Most of these things happen because….well, he blocked me, so I’m not going to find out because I’m not calling him. We can’t control people’s actions, but what we can control is our response.

And we also can ask ourselves better questions then why, which is, “Why would I want to date somebody who doesn’t respect me? Why would I want to date somebody who doesn’t have the decency to tell me the truth?”

So we ask ourselves these low value questions, like, “Why didn’t he do it?” and “Why would he do it to me?” and “Why me?” Those are questions that don’t help us. They don’t really have answers. So when you get out of self-blame and you go, hmm, why would I want to date someone like that? That’s a game changer.

Jodi: One of the trickiest parts of dating is not to take it personally, especially this early, at this early onstage, because it’s about the other person. It’s really not about you. They don’t know you.

Sandy: No, they don’t know me and for whatever sick reason, they wanted to have a lot of conversations with me and then not show up. I started doubting every part of the conversation. Like, was he even from Liverpool? (Laughter) I don’t know. And it was pretty hard to fake the accent for a couple of hours. I do believe that part.

So the next thing that’s important is to really take care of yourself. The best antidote to getting stood up or being rejected in any way is to love yourself more; to practice self-care.

So I did that by going to the beach and breathing in that delicious salty ocean air. I took a walk. I sat on a bench. Just do what makes you happy. Maybe want to meet a friend for coffee or a walk or journal. Like I said before, you might want to go get a manicure. So, you know, just kind of do something that keeps you feeling good about yourself.

Jodi: Take time for self-care.

Sandy: Yeah.

Jodi: That’s what you’re suggesting. Absolutely. That’s so important.

Sandy: Yeah. I think throughout the dating process, we need to practice self-care for sure. And along the same lines, positive affirmations are always good. So understand that one person’s actions don’t determine your self-worth.

You can say, or write things down that help you believe that you are worthy of love that you’re lovable, no matter what happens. And maybe it’s something like, “my heart is still open to love” or, “I’m making room for the right person to come into my life.” And you know, it’s like, it’s part of the journey. You also congratulate yourself for putting your heart out there.

I think a lot of people just don’t date. And so if you getting stood up, it means that you’re taking a risk and you’re getting out there and you’ve made a connection and that you still do believe in love. So I think that’s super important is to just kind of pat yourself on the back and say, “I’m out there. I’m doing it. It’s part of the journey.”

Jodi: It is. And we always should acknowledge that we’re making an effort. We’re taking risks because we believe that we are worthy of love and that we have love to give that lucky person who gets to receive it if we meet that person one day.

Sandy: Yeah, definitely. And the last thing that I want to share is that this is an experience to learn from. When I work with a client, we debrief every date so that it’s always a learning experience. I have my dates look at three things they liked about a person. If they’re actually on a date, two things that were yellow or red flags, and three things they thought they did really well on the date that they’re proud of and two things they might want to do differently the next time. We’re always looking at what worked, what are some signs that we might’ve missed and what can we do better. And so I think it’s really important to debrief what happened.

I was able to look at my interactions with Liverpool Dude and I realized that his words and actions did not match from the beginning. He didn’t call when he said he would. He didn’t follow up on that date like he said he would. At one point, he said…he had sent me some music that he had recorded when he was younger in Liverpool….and he texted that to me once we had exchanged numbers.

I asked him a simple question, like, “What part did you play in the band?” It took him four days to answer! And then he made up an excuse and said he lost his phone and “I’m so embarrassed and I’m such a proper twat that I didn’t call you.” So of course saying proper twat makes it sound so cute. (Laughter)

Jodi: Yes. Especially for us American women!

Sandy:  Yes, that’s right. So, you know, it’s apologies and “Oh, God, I’m so sorry.” And so we have to stop excusing the inexcusable. And I also spoke way too much on the phone before meeting. I almost never, ever, ever do that.

I had an experience early on in dating where I talked to a guy so many days in a row before meeting that the meeting itself, that the date itself was horrific. We had like no connection. But I had built him into this amazing person because of a phone connection.

So we tend to do this. We are so yearning for connection and we finally find somebody who’s interesting and seems interested and we want it to work so badly that we overlook red flags, yellow flags. And I was flattered. I was flattered that a younger man wanted to date me and you know, all these things that I just learned from, and I won’t do them again.

So if you’re looking honestly, at some of the things that you might have missed and some things that you might’ve excused, just do it differently next time and follow through on your commitment to be true to yourself and true to your values and to your standards.

Jodi: These are priceless pearls of wisdom that you garnered from this unfortunate date of being stood up, that you have just shared with me and listeners. Thank you Sandy. Really. Thank you for coming on the show to, to shine a light on an incident, an experience, that too many people have, and that really isn’t talked about much in any sort of open forum. So this is really helpful, I know, for people who are listening.

And what also will be helpful for our listeners is for them to get your book, Becoming a Woman of Value: How to Thrive in Life and Love. I have read it. I loved it. It is filled with actionable advice and you’ve got those 30 steps in it based on the three pillars you’ve already discussed with us. And you’ve got wonderful stories woven into it. And honestly, I was nodding my head as I read it. It was just, “yes, yes, yes” as I went through the book. So I really recommend that listeners get it. Could you please share where they can get your book and also how they can get in touch with you to follow up as potentially a client?

Sandy: Sure. Well, thank you for that lovely review of my book. It’s a labor of love. You can find my book on Amazon and you can find me at LastFirstDate.com. That’s where you’ll find all my coaching services, my blog, my podcast is there.

My podcast is called “Last First Date Radio,” and that’s wherever you listen to podcasts, it’s everywhere. We’re in our ninth year and almost 500 episodes. Make sure to check out my episode with Jodi, we had a fantastic discussion and I really loved our conversation.

Jodi: Me too! Thank you for having me on your show. It was great.

Sandy: You’re welcome. It was fantastic. So, yeah, that’s where I am. I’m also at TheWomanofValue.com. So if you’re interested in not dating, but finding your value in other ways, I also have a podcast there and you can find it there and a blog and a whole bunch of other things.

I also have a Facebook group that is for single women over 40. We do have women in relationships and women who are married, who started out single in the group, and got married and are sharing their experiences.

It’s a fantastic group. I have seven monitors who keep this group safe and sane, and we have just really beautiful discussions about how to grow on your journey to lasting love. And you can find that at “Your Last First Date” on Facebook.

Jodi: You’ve created an incredibly rich and meaningful and helpful portfolio of services and resources and expertise for women to help them achieve their value and to find the partner they’re seeking. I will share all of the information–all the links for how people can get in touch with you–in the show notes for this episode.

Thank you, Sandy, for this conversation and for all of the value you bring to the world.

Sandy: Ahh, thank you, Jodi. We are so aligned in how we see the world and it’s always great talking to you.

Image by Maxpinsoo from Pixabay.

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It’s not unusual to date the same kind of person again and again, but Carolyn didn’t want to do that. Following a breakup, she decided to date a wide variety of types of men so that she could identify the qualities she wanted in a long-term partner. She named her adventure the “Fifty First Dates Project.” Find out what happened, what she learned during her two and a half year dating odyssey, and whether it led her to her Mr. Yes.

Season 4, Episode 10

Carolyn Lee Arnold’s new book, Fifty First Dates After Fifty: A Memoir, can be purchased on Amazon or from your local bookstore.

Learn more about Carolyn and connect with her on Facebook and Instagram.

The post <img src="https://firstdatestories.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/podcast-2.png" />Carolyn and Her Fifty First Dates appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Welcome Carolyn! Thanks for coming on the podcast this episode.

Carolyn: Well, thank you, Jodi. I’m so honored to be on your podcast.

Jodi: It is terrific to have you here and I’m looking forward to the conversation that we’re going to have because this one is going to be unlike any other podcast episode that I have recorded to date.

You’ve come on the podcast to do something that a guest has never done before. Most guests come on and we delve into one date. I’ve had a few guests come on and talk about two dates, but you, Carolyn, you are going to be the first guest to take us through and talk about more than two dates because you went on 50 first dates!

Carolyn: Yup. Yes I did.

Jodi: That is impressive!

Carolyn: And I’m just happy to be here to, to, to share what I learned from them. I mean, you, you helped so many women on their first dates and I’m so impressed with that. And I hope I can just contribute because I learned a lot from my 50.

Jodi: Well, that is really sweet of you. And I know you’re going to contribute. You are already doing so in many ways, but we’ll get to that in a, in a little bit. Now, the idea of going on 50 first dates might excite some of our listeners, but it also might recoil others. Right? (Laughter) That’s a lot of first dates to go on. Why did you decide to go on 50 first dates and how did you go about it?

Carolyn: Well, there were a couple of reasons. One is, I was in in my late fifties and I’d broken up with a man. We had different life goals. We had to break up, but we still loved each other. And I was afraid I was going to look for someone just like him, because I liked that type. And so I realized I needed to expand my type of man that I was looking for. I really wanted to find a long-term committed partner. But I also wanted to avoid things that had happened when I had dated before, which is sometimes settling for a person who’s just, okay, not really great. Or getting really hurt by one person and stopping dating and not getting too discouraged or and, or being too picky about who I wanted and not going out with anybody.

So I was trying to avoid all that and luckily I’m a researcher. And so I thought, how can I approach this differently? And I thought I should go out with a lot of men in order to figure out what type I would like. And then that movie “50 First Dates” came to mind. And of course she went out with 50 dates with the same man because she had amnesia. But it gave me an idea that 50 would be a great number to go out with and, and explore different types of men.

And the other side of that was, as a researcher, I decided to look at dating more as research, like a research. It was research into what type of man and relationship that I would like. So I felt like I was about to embark on dating types of people, not necessarily individuals. And I was hoping that would all make it more interesting to me as a researcher, make it more successful, and avoid those things that I had done before when I got discouraged with dating.

Jodi: You come with a really, a truly unique background, because most people come into dating with a profession, but not a profession that will help them learn about dating and evaluate their experience. So, given this, what came out of your recent project. Share with us what the results were.

Carolyn: Well, I was very pleasantly surprised how it worked out, because I don’t think I could have predicted this. First of all, having a goal provided a lot of positive and optimistic momentum to the dating. I felt like I was going towards my partner he was far away, but I had a lot of things to do in between, and it was, and I could enjoy the journey more than, than just the destination.

What happened was, each date — since I knew I was going to go on 50 and I was committed to doing that, although of course I realized if I found my guy right before and I was sure I would stop, but I was mainly going for 50 — each date didn’t have as much weight. It didn’t matter as much if each date worked out or not with if I liked him or he liked me. I could be more objective. I could be more curious like, “How was I with him? How was he with me? How did we, how were we both will this, will this work? Should I go on a second date?” And it was just lighter.

So I really enjoyed myself. I can enjoy myself with the men. I had more fun with them. I also, I could, if I got rejected, which I did actually a lot I could move on easily. In fact, I went through this entire project feeling like it was a fun project. And then when I looked back, I realized I’d actually been rejected a lot. And I hadn’t even noticed it hardly because I kept that momentum. So it worked to have that goal for me.

Also, because I was trying to cast my net widely for different types of men, each man I went out, didn’t have to be a potential partner. They just had to be someone I liked who I wanted to explore, like “hmm, a businessman” or “hmm, an artist” or a musician or someone who likes the beach or someone who does, who hike a hiker. I was looking for different types.

And also didn’t have a list. I didn’t start out with a list of things I wanted. I was doing the type of research that would be called exploratory.

I was open to what I found. I was taking in a lot of data about different types of men and seeing what I liked and what I didn’t. And I was slowly developing a list, but way farther along the line, not in the beginning. That’s just some of the benefits that I got.

Jodi: It’s a lot of benefits! You got a lot of benefits. You had the healthiest perspective going into this project. I love that you looked at the big picture and, Carolyn, that you always believed that he was out there. How is it that you always believed that he was out there? Where did that belief come from?

Carolyn: I think I just had faith in this project. You know, the other thing about 50. I’m a statistician and the number 50 is actually what you need in a sample size to get significant results. So I kind of trusted that, that would, that 50 would be enough to bring me at least a conclusion of what type of person I wanted. I just thought that that would work.

But I also, I wasn’t counting on it. I mean, if I had gotten to 50 and hadn’t found somebody, I was going to do it again. Because I was enjoying myself so much. I guess in answer to your question is, I do have a naturally optimistic nature from my parents. And so I that’s where I go. And that’s probably kept me going a lot too.

Jodi: Your optimism combined with your statistician know-how gave you the impetus, the drive, and the belief that this project was one that made sense, that you could execute on, that you could enjoy, that you could continue on and that would result in you finding your person.

Carolyn: And it did! And it did!

Jodi: Wow!

Carolyn: I wanted to make that point. Yes. Yeah. I actually found it before I got to 50, so I was pleased.

Jodi: So you found him and we are going to get to that because I want to hear about that. But first let’s talk about the big picture. Let’s talk about this project and we don’t have time to delve into all 50 dates because that’s a big number, but the good news is that you have a new memoir that’s just been published and it’s titled “Fifty First Dates after Fifty.”

Carolyn: Right.

Jodi: And so the reader who reads this book accompanies you through this entire odyssey. And I know this because I’ve read your book. And so I was able to accompany you through this odyssey and it was a really fascinating, inspiring, and really interesting one.

Carolyn: Great! I’m glad you liked it.

Jodi: Absolutely! So instead, let’s highlight, let’s say three of your most memorable dates. So can you take us through, let’s say the first one and help us understand what about it made it significant?

Carolyn: Yeah, there are several of these dates. And by the way, I just want to say in the book, I only highlight really around 20 of the dates. I take people through those 20 and just mentioned the other 50, so they don’t have to actually slog through all 50 of the dates.

But these are the ones that really stood out. And this, this one I’m going to talk about was about the midway of the project. It wasn’t an online date. I had met him on Match.com. And I didn’t get many answers to my Match.com because I was very specific about what I wanted. So this guy matched me pretty well, and we had friends in common.

So for our first date, he asked me if I wanted to have dinner at his house and I accepted. And then I had second thoughts. I thought still, I don’t know this guy very well. And mainly, I don’t know if I want to invest a whole evening at somebody’s house, actually an hour from my house, until I know them a little better. So I suggested that we have a date. And we lived an hour apart. So I thought of a place that we could go halfway between our houses. It was a marina and it would be a nice place for a walking date.

And the reason I like this date is this an example of me taking care of myself. You know, dating’s a long-term project and you have to really take care of your own heart. And I didn’t want my heart to be off in some guy’s house and find out, maybe we didn’t like each other. He didn’t like me. I was really taking care of myself by insisting on a pre-date.

And he agreed to it. He was very cute. He said, “Sell, I hope I pass the test.” (Laughter) So it was very cute. So we, we had the walk and it was a very sweet walk and I wasn’t as attracted to him as I thought I would be. I liked him and he, we had a great conversation and I was willing to take a chance on a second date.

And so I was looking forward to it the next day before the date, the date was a couple of days later, he called me at my house and said, “Can I tell you something?” And I was about to have some friends over for the evening. He knew that he said, “I want to tell you something before your friends come.” And he said, “I don’t think I can have a day with you. I don’t think we’re a match.”

And I was so disappointed because that predate was for me to tell them, to find out about whether he was okay for me. And whether I felt comfortable with him, it wasn’t for him to reject me. I was so shocked and hurt and my heart was hurt because my heart had started opening up to him a little.

And so here’s what I did. That is one of the things I did. One of the best things I did, it was self-care is. I I had a little dialogue with my heart. I just turned to my heart and said, She said, really, “How did this happen?” I said, “I know we were supposed to have a pre-date. It was supposed to be for us.”

And, I just had this conversation that was reassuring my heart and telling her that I loved her and how proud I was that she kept open, open heart to people. And then I was trying to protect her by having a predate. And she said, she appreciated me doing that. And it was just very healing between us to get in, get in sync with my heart and let her know I was really trying to protect her. And I was hurt, sad too.

And I felt her feeling protected by me and cared for by me so that it was just a good example of, I was trying to take care of us. It didn’t work out the way I thought, but I salvaged it by talking to my heart.

Jodi: Dating is a series of being rejected or rejecting someone at some point until you get to that person. This technique that you used is one that we all could benefit from because we all need to protect our hearts along the way. How do you actually go about that? Are you having that interaction with your heart through meditation or in another way?

Carolyn: I was preparing dinner for my friends. And, and so I was just talking out loud to my heart. I just said out loud, “I’m so sorry.” I actually, my friends were about to come, so I thought I would, they would hug me and comfort me, but then my heart kind of cried out. I thought that we were protected. And so I just started talking to her out loud and I heard her talking to me. It’s more of an internal dialogue, but that I think I say stuff out loud to her.

Jodi: This experience, which caught you completely by surprise, because as you said, you were the one who was doing the deciding there, not him! He turned the tables on you, but it all worked out for you.

How did that strengthen and improve your journey throughout the dates to come? Because as you said earlier, you looked back and you realized you were rejected. I say that, you know, more than you were the one doing the rejecting. Did that strengthen your resolve and your heart for the dates?

Carolyn: Well, you know you know, as well as I, that in order to date, you have to have some resilience for things like this. And so I think w what it did is it comforted me that I had a way to be resilient, that I had a way to take care of my heart. I felt comforted that I, I could comfort myself. I could ask for help from my friends who were about to arrive to comfort me and I got over it pretty fast and seeing that made me want to go on.

And also we have, when we did, we have to respect what the other person wants too. He said, I wasn’t a match for him. Well, I can’t argue with that. I have to respect that. And so I wouldn’t have wanted him as a match. So, he saved us both some time.

Jodi: He did you a favor.

Carolyn: Right, right.

Jodi: Your time is precious. You didn’t need to spend that evening with him because it wouldn’t have ended up getting you to the results that you were after. So, and my observation, and from all my years of dating and the thing that so many people find so challenging is that you can’t take this personally when someone you don’t know, you’ve just had a walk with, comes back to you and says, I don’t think we’re a match.

We can’t really take that personally deep down for a long time because that person is just getting an initial sense of us and really doesn’t know us and..do you agree?

Carolyn: Yes. Oh definitely. Not taking things personally is a huge is a huge perspective that you have to take when dating it. It can’t be. It’s not about you. It’s not about you. It’s about them.

Jodi: Right. And yet it feels so much about you.

Carolyn: Yes, it is related. It is related, but I just kept coming back to, “well, if he thought we weren’t a match and I didn’t,”… I wasn’t sure we were a match. I was just willing to give it another try. It’s good that somebody was clear, I guess, especially since I wanted to move on, I was going to move on.

Jodi: Exactly. And it was fortunate that you had these friends coming over that night. Yes. Yes. Okay. So another thing here, another element here, is to have a support system, whether it’s one person or a group of people.

Carolyn: Definitely, definitely. That’s one of the things I noticed about my project. I kind of had a support system. It’s a long-term project, whether you’re going on 50 or 10 dates, or going until you find your person. It’s long-term and you have to build in support, whether that’s a core group of friends or a group or a therapist or a therapy group, or a personal relationship workshop group, which is what I have. Everything helps.

Jodi: Everything helps. All right, well, let’s now move into the second date. That was memorable from your 50 first date journey. Please share with us what happened on this second date.

Carolyn: Well, this date was also around in the middle of my dating project. And I call this the Magical Date because it was just the whole aura of it was magical. And it was the result of me casting my net wide to be with different types that I might not have been with.

I met this guy on a Sierra Club hike, which is, which is a type I would like, but he was shorter than me. And I had this prejudice that I only could be with men who were taller than me. But he was so kind and nice and personable that I decided to see what it would be like to date him and see if I could overcome my short prejudice.

We went on a few dates and we had a wonderful time dancing and having dinners. And I think this was our fourth date and he invited me to his house. I trusted him and he had beautiful music playing. He was a white guy who, who danced African music. African dances. And he had all these masks and objects from Africa in his house and played world music in front of the fire. It was just beautiful and luscious to be there.

And then he took me hiking behind his house. And this was February, it was kind of drizzling. I was a little wondering what he was doing. He said, “Come, please follow me up this path.” And we went up this path on the hill, behind his house, and I was really skeptical because I was getting cold.

And then all of a sudden I saw this little magical hut on the side of the. And it was a little hut glowing with candle light and some music was playing out of it, some very ephemeral, angelic music. And it was like really a scene out of “Lord of the Rings,” those tiny little houses on the side of the hill. And it felt like that. And we went into the little hot and we looked down, we were way above his house and it was just very cozy. He set it up with pillows. We just sat there and actually just looked at him. We were just gazed. We just felt happy. And he just…it was just very sweet.

You know, I would not have had that experience if I was, had not cast my net wide and been willing to go out with people I might not like. And in the end I actually could not overcome the short thing. I couldn’t do it. And, he didn’t feel very good about that. And neither did I. But we had some sweet times that I wouldn’t have given up for anything. It was just a great thing to experience.

Jodi: So, this is an example of a date that enriched you personally because of the goodness that you felt and the spiritual connection of sorts that you experienced in that location, in that magical hut?

Carolyn: Yeah, he had created magic there. He had created this environment that was just out of this world. And I would never guess that about him. I thought he was a hiker. I thought he was interesting, but a dancer, but I didn’t know he’d do this. People have gifts inside them that we can experience if we’re open to it and those gifts are part of living and having a full life, and this is an experience that I’m so glad I had, even if I didn’t see him very many times after that. It was just so precious.

Jodi: He surprised you in a way that you hadn’t expected and it helped you learn to think more broadly about people who you meet and what they might be, who they might be, how they might be? Is that…yeah.

Carolyn: Well, it, it, it definitely confirmed that everybody, not everyone, but most people have something to offer. And even though I could not overcome my prejudice against short men and I wanted someone tall still….of course, I could be friends with people who are different too. So it reminded me that there are all sorts of people who can surprise you.

Jodi: That sounds like it did help enhance your view of people to come and open your mind even further. Let’s transition now to talk about a third date that you went on.

Carolyn: Okay, well, this is the day I call it the “Date of Balance.” I was on a date with a very high energy younger man. And we, and he was accompanied me to a New Year’s Eve party, which was itself, very high energy. It was a big house full of people, dancing and socializing and being out on the deck eating and drinking, and we both knew people there. And so we went in and we were both wearing these very glimmery shiny outfits. And we kind of matched in our energy. That’s why I liked going out with him, wanted to go out with him. And so we were very well aligned.

But since we knew other people we each wanted to go say hi to our friends. So we agreed, “Well, let’s go mingle a little bit and then get back together.” So we did that throughout the evening. We mingled with other people. We said, hello to our friends, hung out with them. And then we got back together and we danced together or we just talk together with other people. And then we went apart again.

And what I loved about it is that’s the kind of balance I was looking for in a partnership. I’m someone who spends a lot of time alone. I need time alone. And I also like to be with people and I really want both. And I really saw in that party a model for what I wanted in a partner. And that it should be possible. I really could feel it in my bones. And some of my dates were like this in it was a model for the type of partner I wanted and I wanted to feel it in my body to experience it. So that, and I, and I do believe that it’s what I then was able to recognize and maybe attract in a partner to have this because this type of balance at a party, much later when I found my partner and much later when we were going to parties, we did the same thing. It was exactly that. What I had imagined was possible. That’s what we did.

Jodi: You were sort of painting a portrait in a way of the person and all the characteristics and the interactions that you were looking to meet and be with. And this modeling of this coming together and stepping apart in social situations is something that you realized was so important for you.

Carolyn: Right. Right. And not everyone does that. And not everybody likes that. Some people like to cling, cling, cling, and some people like to ignore the whole time. (Laughter) So to have that balance was really precious and what I knew, what I wanted modeled, what I wanted.

Jodi: This modeling of the type of relationship that you. Wanted, ultimately to be a part of ended up leading you to that person. Please share some details about how you found this person.

Carolyn: Well, first of all, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have noticed him if I had seen him earlier in this project. He actually was part of my large friendship, not friendship group, but acquaintance group, in our community, but I hadn’t really noticed him.

And I just started noticing him towards the end. And there was something about his energy, his brightness, his optimism, he’s smart. I was at a party once and he made a really, really smart comment. And I looked at him, I thought, Oh my God, this is the type of person I should be with. And I just, it kind of all came together when I started seeing him, but it was later in the project.

I still, for some reasons, was not sure I wanted to take a chance on him. Cause I was pretty serious towards the end. I was really wanting to be with people who I was pretty sure were available to be partners and we’re kind of what I wanted. And I was still not sure about him. But then we decided to go on a date and the date that we picked was an incredible date.

We talk about first dates and you do one thing or the other, well, we had a day long date in which we did three things and each of the things reflected an aspect of ourselves that we’ve ended up sharing from that on, The first thing we did is we went for a bike ride. He showed up with his bicycle and we went biking in a beautiful place near my house.

Then we had, we coincidentally, we had a, a friend who had died and it was her Memorial Service was that day. So we went and we’re with our friends in this kind of grieving time. We kind of were witness to our friend’s grief and our grief and showed that together. And then the third thing was, we were planning to go an Oscar party. Another friend had the Oscars where that night we were going to go to a party at her house. But in the meantime, we stopped at my house. And I was just full of feelings. I was feeling was full of feelings about the person who died. She was so much like me.

I thought it could have been me. I was still, I had just seen the person I broke up with so long ago, but I was still feeling sad about him. I was scared about how much I was feeling for the person that I was starting to see. And I just started crying and he just held me. Nothing more, just, just held me and just showed me what a presence he could be with me and how safe it was and how gentle he was.

And I just cried and he understood. And then we went off to the Oscar party and just helped hands. And that was the date. Then he went home. And it imprinted on us that those three things that we still do together. We do some exercise. We do some joyful playing with friends and then some sort of deep work, not a Memorial service, but we do our own work. And so it was about a balance of its own type.

Jodi: Most days are not days like the one that you and he experienced together, you really experienced an odyssey of emotions that day.

Carolyn: Right! Exactly, exactly!

Jodi: And he was able to be by your side, through all of it in a way that was very comfortable.

Carolyn: Right. And, and I had expressed emotions with other dates also, but this was just a much wider spectrum. He was touching me on so many more levels than anyone else had. And I realized how aligned he was with me and I with him.

Jodi: The behaviors, the criteria that you were seeking in your partner, were you, maybe not in the moment, but after that day, just running through them and saying check, check, check?

Carolyn: Yes, I was, I was. But I was also a little wary. I was also wary, I by then I was thinking I just wanted to wait and see, I wasn’t going to be jumping in and saying, “This is it.” Even though I kind of felt like it, but I was also going to say, well, let’s see how this works out. I was a wait and see kind of a feeling. He was matching a lot of the things and that was wonderful. And he was, I should be honest, he was matching enough that I didn’t want to go on any more dates.

Jodi: But he wasn’t your 50^th, so….

Carolyn: No he was not my 50th. Yes. So that’s a story. I think that’s part of the story.

Jodi: But he was close to your 50th, but  he was not your 50th first date.

Carolyn: Right.

Jodi: So you weren’t entirely sure, perhaps we would say. Right, now this project that you put together, which is really extraordinary, how long did it take?

Carolyn: It was two and a half years.

Jodi: Two and a half years!

Carolyn: I thought it would go faster. My goal was seven months,

Jodi: Oh boy!

Carolyn: …but I hadn’t done the math about how many days that would mean a week. (Laughter) And I had a full-time job. I mean, that was not practical.

Jodi: Right, right. Do you recommend that other women, the women listening to us right now, follow your lead and also embark on this a 50 date…?

Carolyn: Well only if it resonates with them, I would say yes. If it sounds like something fun. I mean, the reason it worked for me is because I’m kind of quantitative and I like goals. I’m motivated by goals and that made it fun for me and made me move forward. But someone else, may like another type of goal, like maybe dating for a certain time, amount of time, like maybe half a year or a year, and then take a break or something else might work better.

I would say, whatever people can do that makes dating enjoyable and not a chore and not scary. And my book is I have it’s full of different approaches to dating, and I kind of hope that readers see it as a smorgasbord of ideas and just pick the ones that work for them, because it’s all about keeping motivated for ourselves.

Like for some people, just seeing dating as research might be enough of a fresh approach. Like just to say, “Oh, that that might change the lens that you see a date from, and that might help.” We’re all so different in what motivates us and what makes us go and keep going. As you know, dating is a question of persistence. What can you do that will keep you going?

Jodi: Persistence and resilience.

Carolyn: Yes, exactly.

Jodi: And a desire to find love.

Carolyn: Yeah, yes a big motivation. There’s the motivation. But then that sometimes gets lost and dating feels like a slog. And so what can we do to make it feel more fun and interesting?

Jodi: Exactly. I remember as I got further into dating and into midlife dating for me, it became at least the first dates, an opportunity to learn something. I walked into that restaurant, that cafe showed up to ride that bike, whatever it was, thinking that I will hopefully come away with a nugget, something new….a fact that I didn’t know learn about a specialty I knew nothing about maybe removing recommendations at a minimum. Like something, or a good story at a minimum at a minimum! And then if it exceeded that, it’s only goodness.

Carolyn: Yes. Yes. That’s the perfect attitude to go in with that. There’s something there.

Jodi: Well, you went to a lot of dates and you spent time with a lot of different men. So, you clearly learned a lot about them. But more importantly for you, you learned about yourself. I’m curious, what most surprised you about what you learned about you?

Carolyn: Well, let’s see. I knew that I wanted a partner and I knew that I was optimistic and that I could make this project fun. But what I was surprised at was, halfway through I felt like I had, I had gone over from the side of dating to find a partner to, I’m just dating and this is my life. And it became my life in an enjoyable way. I felt like I was in kind of a groove. Like this is how I live. I’m with my friends and I date and I go to parties and I go to retreats. And It’s a full life.

And I had that and I, I really loved having that feeling. That that was one of the happiest times in this whole project, when I realized I was actually perfectly happy being single, that dating was fun and that it could go on and on, and I was fine with that.

Jodi: It’s a full life. I love that Carolyn, that you landed there. It’s a full life that is tremendous. Tremendous.

You started this project because you broke up with someone listeners have been there and possibly some listeners have just broken up with people. What advice do you have for them when you look back on you at that moment in time?

Carolyn: Well, first of all, I do think it is important to grieve if you’ve just broken up with someone and, and lost someone that you dearly love for whatever reason. And however you can do to do that. I happened to be a songwriter at the time. So I took some songwriting classes and wrote sad songs about my lover leaving and everything, and it really helped.

Jodi: That’s great.

Carolyn: And then when, and then suddenly then after a couple of weeks, I wrote a happy song and I realized, oh, maybe I’m ready to date now. And so I really feel like there’s a grieving. I wanted to acknowledge that there is a grieving process.

The other thing is if you’re going to start dating remember that it’s a long-term project and build in loving support for it, for you. Create your life the way you want to live with or without a partner, which for me was surrounding myself with good friends. I had a women’s group that I met with regularly. I had a co-ed group that we met for dinner once a month. I was part of a large community of people who had gone through personal growth relationships who gave a lot, who were very supportive and gave a lot of, had parties and gave a lot of support to each other.

And then I did things I love to do, like go hiking and go to spiritual retreat centers. I didn’t get isolated. That that would be the hard thing to just be by yourself and trying to date, because then it’s easy to get into that situation of feeling discouraged and putting a lot of weight on each date to take you out of your isolation.

So I just think that it’s part of self-care. I mean, it’s just taking care of yourself and doing the things you love in your life so that you’re loving yourself. It all comes back to loving yourself really. And what can you can do to do that, with or without a partner?

Jodi: It does. It comes down to love of the most important person in your life, which is you.

Carolyn: Yeah

Jodi: For each of us.

Carolyn: And I know that your book has a lot of that and believes that too, that you need to be starting with loving yourself in a place of fullness and that you have a lot of advice about holding onto that as your date too.

Jodi: We can only show up as our true selves, if we are. Aware of who we are, we are authentic. And that only happens if we take the time to accept and embrace ourselves. And that is one of the most important steps towards actually finding that lifelong loving partner.

Carolyn: You don’t have to do it alone. I mean, I don’t, I’m not someone who says you can sit around and feel and love yourself by yourself. I have done it in reflection of people who reflect back to me, my best self and my love of me. That’s how I’ve learned it.

Jodi: By bringing people into your life who become good friends?

Carolyn: Yes, yes! People who are good friends who are loving friends. Yes. I mean, I learned, I had a whole new set of friends when I started going to personal growth workshops, which are all about learning to love yourself and love other people.

And so I was in a whole community of people who were trying to be more loving and that’s exactly….I really do recommend that approach that too. I feel like you need more loving people in your life, go to workshops in which they’re teaching that.

Jodi: You spoke about not isolating yourself. And yet here we are coming out of a period of time where we were all isolated and people who were living alone were especially isolated. And that has added so many challenges on so many levels. Thankfully things are getting better and parts of the country increasingly so, but we still have that challenge out there.

Carolyn: We do. We do. And know that people figured out ways to connect online for dating. I mean actually Zoom dating. There’ve been people who have been creative, very creative and taking walks out a lot of walks outside. The workshops that I was part of were online for the whole pandemic, but recently they’ve been in person because they’ve been able to require vaccinations and a lot of testing and made it really safe.

So I think things are opening up in different pockets. And so it’s possible. I mean, this is a great time to be thinking of starting to date because there are lots of there beginning to be more options.

Jodi: Exactly. It’s a great time to step up one’s dating activity and your book, Fifty First Dates After 50: A Memoir is a terrific companion as any of our listeners, any woman in midlife anywhere, steps forward to be out there. Where can listeners get your book and also where can listeners, and how can listeners, get in touch with you?

Carolyn: Well the book can be ordered anywhere that books are sold. It’s starting with Amazon and every bookstore should be able to order it. My website has links to all the usual options and to independent bookstores, which we really need to support now, because they’re the ones who support diverse books.

So my website is CarolynLeeArnold.com. And you can just go to the page that says “Where to Buy” and there’s options for buying the book. Also on my pages are links to my Facebook author page, and my Instagram account, and my email to contact me. They’re all there.

Jodi: And that’s Carolyn Lee, spelt “L E E.”

Carolyn: Right? Right. And I have an offer on my website. If you go to my website and sign up for my blog, which consists of a lot of dating tips and things about being brave and being women in the world right now, I will send my detailed dating tips to you.

I have the 10 dating tips on my website. I have the detailed ones as a gift to send if you sign up for my blog.

Jodi: Okay, that sounds fantastic! And we are going to link to all of that in the show notes for this episode.

Carolyn: Great.

Jodi: Thank you Carolyn, for being my guest. Thank you for taking us through the. And some of the lower lights of this odyssey, that was your 50 first date project. It has been a lot of fun to speak with you.

Carolyn: Thank you, Jodi. Thanks for the great questions. It was very fun to be here. I really appreciated talking with you about it.

The post Carolyn and Her Fifty First Dates appeared first on First Date Stories.

Do you want to silence your inner critics? Would you like to date in way that helps you hone in on the right loving partner for you and filter out the wrong ones? In this Special Episode, Love and Relationship Expert Macy Matarazzo discusses her Five Star System and her No Rules Dating Approach. She’s created these dating techniques to help people develop healthy relationships and be super loved.

Season 4, Episode 9

Learn more about the SuperLoved System and sign up for a free consultation with Macy Matarazzo.

Take the Love Vibe Quiz and find out what’s blocking you from love.

The post <img src="https://firstdatestories.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/podcast-2.png" />Special Episode: The SuperLOVED System with Macy Matarazzo appeared first on First Date Stories.

The following is the transcript for this podcast episode.:

Jodi: My guest this episode is love and relationship expert Macy Matarazzo. A girl of the ’70s, success for Macy was climbing the corporate ladder saying “I don’t need a man”, but wanting Prince Charming anyway. Then finding herself in her forties, alone, convinced that if love hasn’t just happened, she’s unlovable.

That’s when she stopped winging it. And instead decided to do whatever it takes to figure out love before long. She married Larry, the perfect match as she shared her story. Others found love too. So she quit her six-figure gig to help singles all over the world find “the one” using her SuperLOVED System. Macy, welcome to the program I am thrilled to have you join me today.

Macy: I am so thrilled to be here too.

Jodi: It’s going to be fun to delve into all that you have to share about love and relationships. Now, speaking of sharing you and I share a common backstory in the fact that we’re both what I like to refer to as “Seasoned Daters,” people who have been single later or longer than they had expected to or wanted. After you had that aha moment in your forties, how did you go about figuring out how to find love?

Macy: That’s a good question, because it really was, like you said, an “aha moment” where I recognized that what I had been doing up until that point was not working. So in that moment, I remember making this declaration of: “I am going to do whatever it takes.” And in doing that, it required some resources. So I actually engaged in hiring someone to help me. They were a life coach, not necessarily a specific relationship coach, but helped me really get to some of the core patterns and habits and beliefs that were not helping me actually receive the kind of relationship that was a good match for me. That was part of it.

Jodi: What did you do with the information that you learned about yourself?

Macy: It really was an actual commitment to myself. I mean, it was daily practices. It was staying focused on what it is I wanted to create. It was engaging in communities that were fun for me, where I could meet people. It was committing to dating in a way that also was different than I was doing before, because before I found it to be kind of miserable and exhausting, and it was having a new perspective and strategy in the way that I even navigated dating, that made it actually fun and light for me.

Jodi: You had a perspective that so many other women have at one point, that dating is miserable and exhausting. But you got past that and you were able to forge a different path. So where did you take that and how did you get to Larry?

Macy: It’s actually interesting because one of the things that I recognize that I did that made it even more fun for me, which it’s not going to necessarily sound fun in the words, is that I treated it almost like “the business of dating.” I was really organized and structured in meeting people and committing to a certain quality. So, whereas before I was quite open to the idea of, “oh, well, let me give them a chance, let me see what’s there,” or will they like me? So maybe there’s something that I can get from this.

And I stopped doing those things. I said, okay, I’m going to do a five-star system. And if they don’t meet like four or five, then it’s probably not going to be something I’m going to pursue even further. And it felt very clear to me and it was helpful and it really helped me to manage the energy of dating.

Jodi: It completely makes sense that you approached it as the business of dating because you come from a business background. Right?

Macy: Right.

Jodi: And I know that many of our listeners are business women. So to tackle dating as a job with a lot of structure around it, for many people might seem logical if they think about it, but they may not approach dating that way at the outset. So around your “aha moment,” you kind of got it that you needed to switch around the way you were thinking and take it to the way you approached your work life.

Now, this five-star system is really provocative. Tell, tell us more about the five-star system and whether you have taken that system and built it into your broader, SuperLOVED System that you offer and provide to clients.

Macy: I absolutely do. And I would say in the scheme of the SuperLOVED System, it’s kind of a smaller star in the dating phase of creating a relationship. But the five-star system is what helped me keep on track. So I mentioned that if it wasn’t a four or a five, then it might not be  worth pursuing, although I will say a 3 typically meant that there was more that I wanted to know. So one and two meant that there just wasn’t anything that’s inviting me back. There wasn’t any curiosity or I felt bored or wasn’t fun, or that if I imagined going on another date, I sensed a heaviness or a dread. So it was ensuring that I didn’t get seduced by the mind of, “Oh, well, what if though, what if you need to give them a chance” and all of the things that tended to really drain my energy in the past.

Because if I can compare it to where I was before I was really gung ho and I would go out with a whole bunch of people and I wasn’t really clear on my own values. I would be open to anyone who seemed interested just to give them a chance. And what I noticed would happen over and over again is I would feel so burned out in a couple of weeks or discouraged that then I would throw in the towel for a couple months.

So my whole plan with the five-star system was to take care of my energy and to give myself this experience of choosing and being willing to have a higher bar before I would give anyone my time.

Jodi: You’re saying that as part of this Five-Star System and your broader approach, that you were also injecting self-care into your, your method of dating.

Macy: It was a huge benefit. And it was a huge relief. I mean, it brought so much ease and actual fun because I actually had something that gave me a measurement where I could say, oh wow. I went out with this guy and yeah, I’m still curious about this person. I’m still wondering. So I’m leaving that at like a three-star and then going out with another person and seeing, wow, I’m really excited about this person more than that other person and it feels like a four-star. So it gave me actually a method to prioritize too.

Jodi: So, if you suddenly had a lot of four stars on, in, on your calendar, would you say no to a three-star that you would otherwise have said yes to if there were one and two stars asking you out?

Macy: I will admit that I probably didn’t have a circumstance where I had that many people in the funnel. (Laughter) But I will tell you that once I met my husband, who was the only five star candidate that came through, that he did bump a four star.

Jodi: Well, that, that was probably an immediate sign that this man was somebody you needed to get to know a lot better.

Macy: Exactly!

Jodi: You gave Larry five stars and that lucky man got to become your boyfriend. Share with us how he ultimately became your husband.

Macy: Yeah, well the five-star rating really was an amazing moment for me. And I’ll tell you that, that is the day that I celebrate more than even our engagement or our wedding anniversary is the day that he wrote me and I ran over to Linda’s cubicle. And I said, “I have a five-star candidate!” (Laughter)

Jodi: You knew right away when he emailed you.

Macy: I did because I was really excited about the way he looked. I could tell he had style, like a lot that I learned from his message and his profile online. Really showed me a lot of places we connected. And I guess if we can sidebar a little on that, that is so powerful in or in how you’re writing your profile and how you’re presenting yourself, that someone like, in this case where I had that visceral experience of – “yes, I see how we would be a good match” based on what he wrote and his pictures.

And it really helped me feel connected. Whereas a lot of people have quite generic write-ups and it takes a lot more effort to get into who they are. So that was part of probably why he got a five-star rating before even really meeting him.

Jodi: One of the things to take away from what you just said is that you encourage people to put a lot about themselves into their profiles if they’re on a platform that allows them to.

Macy: Exactly! And a lot of people are afraid to do that and it’s not wrong, but I would be aware of that. If someone out there who’s listening is writing about themselves in a way that is kind of generic and vanilla, then that actually doesn’t help your person find you.

And some people I know have felt – “well, I don’t want people at work to know I’m online,” or “I don’t want someone to find out,” or if there’s any of that energy happening, then guess what? You’re probably hiding from an amazing person.

Jodi: That’s a really interesting way to look at it that you are denying somebody, uh, knowing enough about you, such that they would want to meet you if you write

Macy: So that they can recognize you.

Jodi: Exactly. But you recognized Larry and you raced over to Linda. How did things transpire after that?

Macy: Well, Linda was excited, FYI and I actually wrote him. He had written me. So there was a really sweet and really funny and kind message that showed me that he really read my profile. So there is something beautiful about being acknowledged in that way. When you know someone has seen something that inspired them, his first line, “You had me at soup.” (Laughter)

You had me at soup was acknowledging that I had mentioned that I like making soup. There you go.

Jodi: There you go. What kind of soup?

Macy: I can make all the soups. I make all the soups all scratch and it makes me really happy. I love making soup for me and other people. And so it was. It’s kind of funny because I actually do remember a time when, when I was dating online and this was all the 10 or 15 years before I actually figured out what works that I was writing things that 1) were generic, 2) were what I thought a man would want to read. And therefore there was nothing really about me that was in it.

And it was this round, which was part of the “aha” and the change that I made and all of the inner work that I did that helped me really appreciate who I was. And I went from trying to be this mountainy woman in Colorado, because that’s what I thought men wanted, to actually, I’m not outdoorsy, I’m indoorsy. Actually, I love sewing. I like making soup from things from my garden. It really gave some details that for someone like Larry appreciates, that could go, yes. I do too. Me too!

Jodi: You evolved as a woman, as a person, in the process of trying to find love. And there was a man out there who responded to that authenticity and what you presented online and to the world. That sounds like an incredibly healthy and life affirming way to approach dating.

Macy: Yes. And I will also say that there weren’t a lot of candidates. There weren’t a lot of people that excited me. And when I would do my own searches online, I would find that there’d be not that many people who would come up based on the things that I valued and I was looking for.

I didn’t make that a problem because what I knew that I hadn’t known all the other times I was dating, is that, yes, my person is special. My person is not everyone. And I am excited to meet this person, even if it takes a little while.

Jodi: You were not going to compromise. You were going to wait for your person. And you, because you deserve that person. And everybody listening to us deserves their person as well.

Macy: Right. And I had an awareness of what that was. So part of the SuperLOVED System in the tools I teach include a lot of different ways that we come back to ourselves, come back to actually being honest and honoring who we are and not coming from a place of judgment or comparing or thinking I have to have my mom’s relationship or my best friend from college’s relationship. Like all of the things that can make us feel wrong or like it doesn’t exist. And the only thing we need to know is, “Do I have the desire to share my life with someone? Is that something I have in my heart?” And if the answer is yes, then know that that desire is not just for you. That desire is you AND the other person.

So the desire includes another person. So are you willing to have that consciousness of, “yes, I am showing up for this love relationship that has been simmering in my heart. And I know what that feels like, and I am choosing it and knowing that it includes another person” In some ways I think it’s kind of interesting to go, “oh, if I’m scared to do it for me, or if I don’t have the courage to put myself out there for me, what I want to rob someone of their love story?”

Okay. That’s a little bit of a guilt trip thing, but still, can you really expand into a new consciousness of, this is actually not just me? This is a relationship that wants to be created WITH me.

Jodi: It’s an inclusive approach to dating. It’s setting out with intention for yourself, but knowing that one day there’ll be another person stepping into that with you. And that you need to be thinking about that from the outset. Is that what you’re saying?

Macy: I think it’s just an awareness that you’re not really alone with that desire. When I met Larry, there was a really clear sense that we were both asking for each other. And if he had thrown in the towel or given up, then we wouldn’t have met. If I had given up or burned out or just decided, “oh, I guess it’s not going to happen for me” and fallen for the inner critics or the doubt and the fears then, you know, maybe we would’ve met later. But what if we wouldn’t have met? I just feel like it’s kind of a magical way of looking at things that can inspire people to really honor those desires in a bigger way.

Jodi: So many of us, at times, give in to the doubts and the inner critics. It’s tough to date at times. It should be always wonderful. It should be always fun, but that usually isn’t the case all the time. How do you recommend that people who are dating try to avoid giving into the doubt and inner critics? What can they do to avoid succumbing to all of that?

Macy: I think the most important thing is to remember that the inner critics and the doubt, that’s not real. It’s not that you’re not having feelings. Okay. You’re having feelings or you’re sensing things, but to be so committed to that desire, that that’s bigger than any of the doubts and the fears. Because when you think, “Okay, well, I can’t do this. I can’t have that. I guess it’s not in the cards.”

And there’s this heaviness. I think all the inner critics, have a quality to them that is heavy. And that’s not actually what we’re here for. We’re here for the ease and the joy, and that’s actually possible when you don’t buy into and agree with and fall for the seduction of those inner critics.

Yes, it’s absolutely probably unavoidable for that to show up in a dating experience because, it’s just an, it’s something that means a lot to people. It means a lot. It’s a heart issue or a heart creation that, of course it matters to people. So just knowing that, when you’re asking for something and anything that’s related to the heart is going to call up the inner critics naturally.

And when you can say, “Oh yeah, that’s an inner critic,” then you can name it and you can go, “Okay, well, what is it ultimately that I really know that I want to create?” And be disciplined enough to say “I am choosing that no matter what, and not falling for the tricks of the critics.”

Jodi: I think that’s really tremendous advice that applies well beyond the dating world

Macy:  Yes!

Jodi: Because the inner critic speaks up in our lives in lots of different points of time. And it’s something that all of us have to contend with. So that is really terrific advice.

One of the things you’re known for is your “No Rules Dating Approach.” Shine some light on that for us, please.

Macy: The No Rules Dating Approach is really remembering that you are the chooser as the data. And when people say, and there’s a lot of dating coaches out there that have a lot of rules. And to me, it’s an immediate disempowering experience to say, “Okay, I don’t know what I’m doing. I have to rely on these rules. I can’t trust myself.”

So being stuck with a bunch of rules around dating means that you’re not connected to you. So that’s why I like to invite people to consider, you’re the one that gets to create this.

And you’re the one who will know. Every relationship is different and it’s, it is scary to not have rules. Some people rely on rules because then they don’t have to think that, oh, they’re going to fail or that they’re going to do it wrong. And if they follow the rules, then they have to get a certain result.

And yet even following rules, then they don’t get the result they want. And then, okay, they get to be right about being single forever or whatever the thing is. To me, it creates a lot of disempowerment and what I love about teaching women about relationship in the SuperLOVED System is that it’s all about the art and the consciousness of finding the one, which means that you become the advocate for you. And that you’re in relationship with yourself in a really powerful way.

Jodi: I really wish I had heard your perspective on all of this when so many years ago, I was holding a copy of that darn book, The Rules, in my hand. A lot of Gen X women have read that book and I think it affected a lot of us in the way that we dated and what you just laid out is exactly opposite to what that book said. And what you just laid out, to me, sounds a heck of a lot healthier and more empowering than the behavior that book guided us to follow.

Macy: Exactly! And how many people feel wrong or bad because they broke one of the rules or feel like they can’t do the thing? And what is that about anyway, that leaves nothing for your own awareness, your own consciousness to contribute to?

So, this is about a next level relationship. That’s why I called it “SuperLOVED” because it is the relationship where, you know you’re SuperLOVED and it starts before you even start dating and that, you know that you have the ability to go, “Okay, what’s here? What would I like to create? Is this working for me?” And then navigating from there.

Every person, with another person, even when it’s not in a love relationship scenario, is going to have a different experience. You and I, together we’re having this conversation because it’s you and I together and what is created when we come together and it’s no different. It’s not like, okay, now there’s a million rules for how to do a podcast. And we have to talk about this now. And we can’t talk about this until later.

Like, what is that? That’s not, not fun at all. I don’t want a relationship like that. And I would say to that, yeah, there are some people who are going to feel better having a bunch of rules. And if that’s the case, then they get to choose that. That’s not the relationship I was looking to create.

Jodi: And then it’s not the relationship you’re helping your clients and future clients create either.

Macy: Exactly because the women who come to me often have already had some experiences of relationship, maybe even a marriage that didn’t work out. Maybe a brilliant relationship and there was a loss. And there’s just a next level space where it’s being able to know more about yourself because you’ve lived some life and we just want something different now. We’re not our grandmother who was married because that was the neighborhood boy, and we need to have babies so that we can keep the farm going. It’s not that anymore.

We’re in a different time on the planet, where there is more of a desire for these deeper connected, spiritual type relationships that really become even how we grow and have a deeper consciousness with ourselves and the world.

Jodi: Who is the woman who can benefit from the SuperLOVED System?

Macy: The woman that I just adore working with is the kind of woman who actually has had success in her life. She knows that she has something great to offer a relationship. She may have some fears and doubts. She probably isn’t too excited about the modern dating world, maybe because she hasn’t done it before or has tried it before and it’s felt really inauthentic or icky in some way. And it’s the kind of person who loves personal development.

I mean, ultimately this isn’t, like we just talked about, it’s not a bunch of rules, it’s not gimmicks, it’s not a magic pill. It’s really about your own journey in life. And being able to dissolve any of the barriers that are making having a relationship scary or not attractive.

Sometimes women will come to me and say, “oh, well, you know, things are going so well, like I don’t want to lose anything. I don’t want to have to compromise.” And I don’t see it that way at all. That’s just typically a protection. So we can actually get past these barriers. All we need to know is, “Would you love to share your life with someone? And the SuperLOVED System gives them an experience that dissolves those limitations and allows for love to come in

Jodi: Dissolving the limitations and allowing love to come in. That is what we all strive for if we’re looking for love. How do our listeners get in touch with you and learn more about your coaching?

Macy: Thanks for asking for people who want to learn more. I do have a website, GetSuperLoved.com can go there, learn a lot more about what I have to offer and things that are going on.

I have a lot of content and free things available, but I also have an amazing quiz. So for those people who are kind of wondering. Where am I on the super love journey. If you go to this LoveVibeQuiz.com.

So this assessment is not about finding out what Kardashians you are, what Simpson’s character it is. It’s actually a really meaningful assessment for those who really do want to find out what they can do to actually take that next step in their love life. Just answering the questions will give you tons of awareness.

So go to LoveVibeQuiz.com to take that assessment. And then you certainly are open to setting up a time with me. If you know, you want to have a relationship in the next three to six months. Message me on my website, reach out, fill out an application to have a call with me. It’ll be free and there’s no obligation to coach with me, but it will give you an idea of what you can do next.

Jodi: Terrific! And we will put those links in the show notes so listeners will have immediate access to them.

Macy: Thank you.

Jodi: Thank you Macy. I have really enjoyed talking with you. I’ve really enjoyed delving into the SuperLOVED System and learning how it’s more than just about finding love with somebody else. It’s also about grounding yourself in the love you have for yourself and that holistic approach is really a special one and I have no doubt is an incredibly powerful and effective one. Thank you for coming on the podcast and being my special guests this episode.

Macy: Thank you for having me.

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