Jodi: Hi, Monica. It’s great to have you back on the podcast!

Monica: Hi, Jodi. I’m glad to be back.

Jodi: The first time you were on the show, you told us a story about your first date with Scott. It was a memorable one! I’m excited to have you back so you can share another standout date story with us. But before we get into that story, there are probably some listeners who have not heard the Monica and Scott episode yet. So for them, would you catch us up please about yourself. Tell us a bit about who you are, what you like to do. and other interesting stuff you’d like to share.

Monica: Sure. I’m in the 40-something age group. I was married for 21 years and was surprised by a divorce. That was pretty earth-shattering. I didn’t even see it coming. My son is 16 and my daughter is 13. I have a finance background. I was a loan officer in a bank while my husband was doing his residency. And when he went into private practice, I took over the household and ran everything from taking out the trash, to doing investments, to raising the kids.

Personally, I describe myself as an athlete. I’m the “weekend warrior” competitive type. I’ve played on three soccer teams. I ride a snowboard, scuba dive, do marine boot camps and have taken up cycling. When the word-on-the-street was that I was getting divorced, I had a personal trainer call me and say, “I have got the sport for you!” It was adventure racing, which is trail running, kayaking, and single-track mountain bike racing. So that’s my new passion!

Jodi: I say bravo to you for taking on that sort of intense workout, and a lot of other things, to get you past your divorce. You’ve come back to the show to tell us about a date you went on with Rich. How did you and Rich meet?

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Monica: I have two very good friends, Jeff and Kelly, who have babysat me through a lot of hard things. If you listen to the other story, Jeff was the one who set me up on that date. His wife Kelly is responsible for this one

Jodi: Really? That’s great! They really love you and care about you and were making sure that you got back out in the world.

Monica: They remind me of that on occasion. (Laughter) On this occasion, I was over at their house. Kelly gave me a few glasses of wine. Then as the night progressed, she talked me into handing over my credit card. By the end of the evening, I had a profile on Match!

Jodi: Were you sitting with her while she was building it, or were you in another room schmoozing, or doing something else and she was busy creating your Match.com profile?

Monica: I was there. I remember sitting there and she would ask me questions and I would give her an answer. She was just typing away at her little laptop. She took a couple of pictures of me. So we went through this whole process. Like I said, I don’t think I thought she was really doing it. I thought she was just trying to entertain me for the evening or something.

I woke up the next day with a bit of a hangover. Then I panicked when I realized that we had actually done this! I grabbed my laptop, flipped it open, logged in, and there I was! I had a profile! But then my panic melted because I had several very nice messages from various men on my profile. It was a very nice feeling.

Jodi: What a dramatic change from logging on and being afraid, to seeing that there were men who wanted to be in touch with you. Suddenly you’re in the world of online dating!

Monica: Yes. Thanks to a couple of glasses of wine and a credit card. (Laughter)

Jodi: And a friend who doesn’t take no for an answer.

Monica: Yes, and it really was that quickly because, all of a sudden I had some control. I had a platform that I could look at. I could be as active in it as I wanted. I’m not trying to say that every single response on there was perfect and wonderful. There were several that were angry people, or maybe people who were a little strange, but it was mine.

Jodi: You had control. You are at the driver’s seat.

Monica: Exactly! I began emailing with a couple of the men who had contacted me and then agreed to meet a few just for a glass of wine at someplace close by. One afternoon, I was online. The system randomly would throw up a page that said, “If you like so and so then we think you might like so and so.” Ninety percent of the times I completely just disregarded those. But that afternoon I was sitting there and the man at the bottom of the page had on a red shirt, which immediately drew my eye. I looked down and I thought, “Man, he’s good-looking!”

My cousin was over at my house. And I said, “Come over here and check this out!” We both kind of stood there. We’re like, “Well, what do we do now?” She’s looking at me and I’m looking at her and I thought, “Well, let’s send him a wink.” So I clicked on the wink button and off it went. I went back online that night and Richard responded with a wink of his own.

Jodi: What was your next move?

Monica: Well, we started emailing back and forth.

Jodi: Were you going on dates with other men while you were in this phase of emailing with him?

Monica: Yes, there were two or three that were very nice pleasant guys, just not a whole lot of chemistry. So I would come back and hop on Match at the end of the evening to see what else was going on and basically to see if Rich was there.

Jodi: Rich would be on Match.com later at night looking for women or waiting for you? What was going on there?

Monica: Well, he had set up a profile on Match to date, right? So I feel like he was online in the evenings checking his profile and probably having other email conversations with other people. When I would log on though, he would usually pop up and ask, “Hey, how was your date?”

Jodi: He was becoming your dating coach, it sounds like, like reviewing dates with you.

Monica: It was funny because we would kind of dissect my date. You know, “What did you guys do? How did it go?” And he would hear my complaints or the positive remarks, “Oh, we did this and that was fun or this guy had terrible manners,” or whatever. He was really funny and smart. I was really enjoying our correspondence.

Jodi: Was he telling you about the dates he had been on?

Monica: He actually had kind of a different take on the dating situation. I had gone straight from high school, from my dad’s house, to college, to being married. I hadn’t ever really been on my own, hadn’t had that single girl vibe. So when I went on to Match, my thought was, “I missed this phase of my life, but dagnabbit, I’m 22 years late and I’m not going to miss out!” I thought it would be really fun to date a bunch of different people, just have what a lot of my friends had had when they were in their 30s.

He had been married. He’d been single for quite a while. He was more of a ‘date one person at a time’ kind of a person. So we would talk back and forth and then I would say something like, “This is going really well. Why don’t the two of us meet for lunch?” And he would say, “I think we’re in different places. You are wanting to go out and date a lot of people and I’m more of a ‘one-person relationship’ type person.” So, I would get a little bit of a push back from him. You just run and play. I’m going to stay over here. He wasn’t going out on a whole lot of dates. He was more looking for that person, not those people.

Jodi: That is such an interesting dynamic and a great one. Some would say that those roles are usually reversed. Stereotypically the man is the one who’s out there playing and the woman is the one who wants to commit to a relationship.

Monica: Yes. But had he known me better, there was no better way to play me. If he wanted to keep my interest piqued, this was a great way to do it. I thought this would be a very fun, free kind of time period in my life truthfully. It got old pretty quickly. I got pretty bored with the same conversations taking place in the same harmless topics. And honestly, I would be at work and somebody would call me and it would take me 5 or 10 minutes into the conversation to even figure out which one guy was. So I think Rich knew better than I did. I think he knew that this fascination with that lifestyle was going to burn itself out and he would be Last Man Standing.

Jodi: You think this was a strategy that he was executing?

Monica: I think it was a 50-50. I do know that that’s his preference to date one person and focus on that. I also feel like it was part of a strategy. Yes, and he also probably had a notepad by his computer, “Be sure and walk her to her car. Don’t be rude with the wait staff.” He’s got a cheat sheet going. (Laughter)

Jodi: He probably did. He probably was taking notes, either in his head or on a piece of paper. He knew what would be attractive about him to you if and when you eventually went out. How did he go from being your ‘late night dating coach buddy’ on Match to becoming somebody who you went on a first date with?

Monica: I finally just said, “You know, I’m getting pretty bored with this ‘date everybody’ lifestyle. You and I seem to have a really great rapport and I think it would be foolish to ignore it.” He agreed that we would meet halfway for lunch.

Jodi: During this whole period, did you ever talk to him on the phone? Or was it all texting, chatting, emailing?

Monica: We did a lot of the emailing through the Match site. Once that was obvious that we were getting along really well, I believe it was Rich that said, “Are you comfortable giving me your phone number?” And so we exchanged phone numbers and we went from the emailing to the texting. You’re still kind of keeping that level of distance in there, and then it turns into, “This is still going really well.

How about I give you a call?” By this juncture we were on the phone agreeing on where did we want to meet.

Jodi: You were the one who made the big move?

Monica: Yes.

Jodi: How’d that feel?

Monica: It felt wonderful. When we had the date set up, I kind of felt like I’d won. I was feeling a tiny bit smug because I had been told, “Oh, well, your mid-40s. You’re going to have to date the mid-60s because the men that are appropriate age for you are all dating the 30-year-olds.” And I may be mid-40s, but I consider myself a fairly young mid-40s and I didn’t necessarily want to be dating somebody in their mid-60s. Rich is actually younger than me. So take that.

Jodi: Take that all you people who told you you’d be dating a guy 20-something years older! How many years’ difference is there between the two of you?

Monica: He’s 10 months younger than me.

Jodi: Okay. Got it. Now since you made the big move, did you also pick the place where the two of you were going to meet?

Monica: I did because it was an area that I am more familiar with and I found a very casual but kind of happening lunch place. I’m not a real dress up person anyway. So picking a place like that made me comfortable in my own skin as well.

Jodi: Makes sense. How did you feel getting ready and driving over to meet this man who you spent so much time conversing with?

Monica: There was a level of comfort because we had spent so much time already talking and going back and forth and laughing a lot. Like I said, we already kind of had some inside jokes going. Honestly, I was still emotionally kind of in a place in my mind of, “I’m never going to get married again. I don’t want to put myself out there. I don’t want to risk myself again that way.” So this was not me going, “Oh, I’m going to go meet my next husband.” It was more, “Oh, I am going to go meet this person that I could end up having a really fun, enjoyable connection with.”

Jodi: That’s a very healthy place to be.

Monica: Exactly! Honestly, if we had gone in and stared at each other blankly over lunch, I would have been disappointed. I was already enjoying his company online and on the phone and there would have been kind of a feeling, kind of a letdown. But I wasn’t going to lunch to meet my husband because I wasn’t even sure I wanted another one.

Jodi: When you arrived at the café, was he already there?

Monica: Yes, he was there and already had a table.

Jodi: Did he look like his photos?

Monica: Yes.

Jodi: Were you happy with what you saw?

Monica: Yes, very much so!

Jodi: How did he greet you when you approached the table?

Monica: With a great smile with two of the best dimples you’ve ever seen.

Jodi: Oh, love it! All right. And how did the date progress from there?

Monica: Well, we had already established a real comfortable connection online and it just continued in person, not to say that we had everything in common because we didn’t.  But we had a very easy way of sharing information and listening to one another that just made it fun to talk.

He plays golf and volleyball. I play soccer and race mountain bikes. He works in the construction industry and I was just starting a job at a non-profit. So it wasn’t, “Oh, we have so much in common.” It was more, “This is really fun to exchange different information, to hear new things and to learn some other things about someone else.”

Jodi: Where did the date go from there?

Monica: We had previously agreed that we were going to split the check, which we did. He walked me to my car, which is not a given as we all know. We were still laughing at that juncture and he said, “I’ll give you a call later tonight,” and I said, “Great,” and I drove off with a huge smile on my face. We spoke that night and we arranged another date.

Jodi: After you went on this wonderful first date with Rich, did you go back to Kelly since she’s the one who put you on this path to begin with?

Monica: Oh, absolutely. She was very happy. She saw I was moving forward, that I was taking action and not sulking anymore. So she was very pleased to see that.

Jodi: Now if you would share with us the rest of the story, please. What happened with you and Rich after you went on that second date?

Monica: After our second date, I told him that I was going to shut down My Match account, that I really was not interested in talking to anyone else at this juncture, that I felt like I had met someone that I’d like to focus all my interest on. He said he was planning to do the same. He is my only boyfriend that I ever introduced to my daughter. And we got married!

Jodi: A lot happened after that second date. Congratulations! And you were the one who put it out there first again. You invited him on that date and then you made the first move also to say, “Hey, I want to get to know you and that’s why I’m getting off of Match.”

Monica: Yes.

Jodi: That is really something!

Monica: That was scary because he could have looked at me and said, “Well, I’m not going to shut mine down.” So that was a big risk. I have never been one that’s big on self-help books. I just always felt like you could find a book that tells you pretty much what you already believe and so then you just get to reinforce your beliefs.

I had another friend who was going through a divorce about the same time as I was. He recommended four books to me. One of the books spoke about being honest in a relationship and then letting the other person react however they want to and you have to be prepared for that. I got a lot out of that book and this was me trying to implement that. This is how I was feeling. I was being honest, and I had to be willing at that juncture to have him say, “I’m going to shut mine down too,” or, “I think I’m going to leave mine open,” and I did it.

Jodi: So you went on the date with Rich thinking that you weren’t interested or prepared to be in a long-term relationship anytime soon, if ever. You didn’t necessarily want to get married again. That’s what you said. But two dates in, you decided, “Okay, this is the guy I want to date,” which means that you were open and in your head already thinking, “I could do a long-term relationship with this man.” That’s a big swing in two dates! That’s an incredible evolution!

Monica: I was open to a long-term relationship. I, at that juncture, was not open to getting married again. I still had kind of a bitter taste in my mouth for the marrying part of it.

Jodi: How did you get rid of that bitter taste?

Monica: It was actually a very convoluted way to come to that conclusion. I have a very good friend who is my age, whose parents had been divorced as far back as she could remember. Her mother had had a longtime relationship with this one man for probably 35 years. I was talking to her one day and she was recounting a story and she said, “My mother and my ‘whatever he is’,” and she continued with her story. At that moment I thought to myself, “I don’t want to be with Rich for 35 years and have my daughter say, ‘My mother and whatever he is’ about Rich.” I didn’t want that for either one of them.

I had made multiple nasty comments about getting remarried. “Oh, I never want to get remarried again. Oh, you know, people lie…” They were very cynical, kind of nasty little side comments. So the chances of this man ever asking me to marry him are probably few and far between, right? I’d had this change of heart. And so now what do I do with it? I have a very good guy friend. I was talking to him about it. I said, “I didn’t really know what to do with this now. I’ve kind of had this change of heart, but I’ve made so many nasty comments.” And he said, “Well, why can’t you ask him?” And I thought, “I guess I could. Why couldn’t I do that?” He and I kind of smiled and I thought, “Okay, I’m going to do this.”

Two weeks later, Rich and I are sitting in a pizza place after my daughter’s soccer game and my phone buzzed with a text message. I did not have my glasses on. So I handed my phone to Rich and I said, “What does this say?” And he looked at it and got this funny smile on his face. I said, “What is it?” and he said, “Well, it’s a text from Randy and he wants to know if you’ve asked me to marry you yet.” (Laughter)

Jodi: I can’t believe it! (Laughter) That’s unlike any proposal I’ve ever…

Monica: He smiled very sweetly and said, “Is there something you’d like to ask me?” (Laughter)

Jodi: What did you do? Did your jaw drop? How did you respond to that?

Monica: I just started stammering and started laughing and was red in the face and I just said, “Can I please have my phone?” (Laughter) And not another word was said about it. He did end up proposing later.

Jodi: Once it was out in the open, what kept you from then asking him?

Monica: That little incident had wiped my little snarky comments off the table. I felt like, at that juncture he knew that I was open to getting married. And trust me, he didn’t miss a chance to poke me about it. Every once in a while, he would look at me and go, “Isn’t there something that you need to ask me?” or something…just as we’re walking in the grocery store…stuff like that. So, he used it. He didn’t miss that chance. But he ended up proposing a couple of months later. Like we had said earlier, I had sent him the wink. I talked him into meeting for our first date. I wanted to let him have this one.

Jodi: He made the big move.

Monica: He did, over a lantern and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches because the hurricane had knocked out the electricity.

Jodi: He proposed during a hurricane? (Laughter)

Monica: Yes, he did. No shower for two and three days. So he must have meant it. (Laughter)

Jodi: What a fabulous story! Before we conclude this episode, are there any lessons from your first date with Rich that you would like to share with the listeners?

Monica: I think right off the bat that sometimes it’s okay to pursue something that you want. It’s always okay to be brave. I am a firm believer of stepping out of your comfort zone. A very minor lesson that I learned is, sometimes more isn’t necessarily better. It was a phase I needed to go through, but it wasn’t something that I personally wanted to pursue for a long time.

Actually, to be completely honest, at one point I started having misgivings and I decided that I should break up with Rich. I tried to do it over the phone because I was a chicken. He made me get in my car and drive over and do it face-to-face, which is always smart. It was over a bunch of superficial reasons. He sat there very patiently, he listened to my explanation. Then he said “I’ve been single for 11 years and I know a good thing when I see it.”

Jodi: And he was staring at it and it was you!

Monica: Exactly! I took a moment and I heard what he was saying. It was true and I actually went to my counselor. I was seeing a counselor because of all of the divorce stuff and I told her. After my conversation with her, she pointed out, “You know, you are about to break up with someone who said get in your car and come over here and be an adult.” She started pointing these things out to me. She also had a better view of what a good relationship looked like. I chose to listen to both of them They were right and I was wrong.

Jodi: Thank you for sharing all of these valuable learnings you had and thank you for coming back on the show to tell all of us your wonderful first date story with Rich.

Monica: Well, it was very fun. I enjoyed reliving it. I actually went over this interview with him last night and told him what I was doing. He got a kick out of it as well. I really hope that your listeners will gain something from my experiences. I think that’s one of the best ways that we can all learn.

The post Monica and Rich appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Hello, Cindy. It’s great to have you on the show.

Cindy: Thank you so much, Jodi. I’m a great fan of your podcasts.

Jodi: Thank you! So, as you know, here at First Date Stories, we like to learn a bit about each of our guests before we delve into the first date story. Please share something about yourself.

Cindy: Sure. I work with education nonprofits and originally I was a middle school teacher. So education has been my career. I do have two adult sons and a daughter-in-law and two grandchildren. I have a guesthouse on my property that I rent out to Airbnb and I also recently got deputized to register people to vote. So I’m pretty civic-minded and like to be involved in my community. I am a widow and have been a widow for 13 years. My husband and I were both 46 when he passed away. I’m 59 now.

Jodi: That was a very young age to become a widow.

Cindy: Yes, He was at home with hospice. And when he passed away and the men came to take the bed that he had been in. I heard one of them say in the hall, “She’s so young to be a widow!” And I thought to myself, “My gosh! This is my new label. I’m now a widow.” You know, I’ve been a daughter and a mother and a sister and a wife. So yeah, it was very difficult.

Jodi: It changed everything for you, including how you saw yourself.

Cindy: Yes. Well, and how the world saw me too.

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Jodi: Right. We’re here to talk about a date you went on. So at some point, you came back into the world of dating after the tragedy that you experienced. Can you share a little bit about that, please?

Cindy: Sure. One thing, even for audience members who have experienced cancer, it’s a long process. We were adjusting over the year and a half, and had kind of talked about my future life. Given that I was so young, my husband had actually said to his mother, “Cindy is going to date again and I want you to help her with that and be accepting of any future person that may be in her life.” She told me that, which was very nice. So after a couple of years of adjusting, I started online dating. I was fortunate. I did meet a gentleman and was in a relationship with him for a number of years, and just recently, in the past year, got involved in online dating again.

Jodi: Has it changed a lot in these past years?

Cindy: Yes. It was like a little easier and it seemed more fun ten years ago. It’s been harder as I’ve been older.

Jodi: Have you tried the dating apps or are you mostly focused on online?

Cindy: I do Match. I have tried Tinder and I have found that it’s not just for hookups or swiping right or left. I’ve been glad of that.

Jodi: So it’s reputations as being all about hookups, at least for a younger age group, isn’t holding strong.

Cindy: No. Gentlemen will put on their profiles on Tinder that they’re looking for a long-term relationship.

Jodi: The date that we’re going to talk about now, did that introduction happen on Tinder or Match or somewhere else?

Cindy: It happened on Match. He contacted me first, which was nice. I do reach out to gentlemen and sometimes initiate the first message after I’ve liked them. But it was nice. He had contacted me first and messaged me on Match and I hadn’t seen his profile.

Jodi: What’s his name?

Cindy: Mike.

Jodi: What did you think when you read his profile?

Cindy: Well, I was concerned because it said he was separated. I hadn’t gone out with anyone who’s separated. And he didn’t have a lot of photos.

Jodi: Do you mean only two or three?

Cindy: Yeah, two photos.

Jodi: That’s it?

Cindy: Yes. In one of them he was mowing the lawn on the rider mower with a headset on to keep the noise out! It was an odd photo.

Jodi: Interesting choice of photos.

Cindy: Yeah. I did agree to go out with him. He indicated in a brief message that he was separated and we could talk about it on our date. He said he was really excited to meet me and that he felt he knew me because I had a detailed profile and a lot of photos. And on Match, I messaged him back and I said, “Well, I don’t really feel the same way because you don’t have very many photos.” And then he put more photos up and that was nice that he responded to that. He said, “Well, you know, actually I don’t have many photos of myself.” But I thought that was nice that he was responsive and posted more photos.

Jodi: When you saw all the additional photos he put up, what did you think?

Cindy: Well, he was in good shape. He was attractive. Yeah. I was interested in meeting him and I was excited to go out with him.

Jodi: Did you have a lot of back and forth email exchanges or texting exchanges with him?

Cindy: My standard has been not to share my email or my phone number until we meet. I’m kind of revising that a little bit now because it seems to be so common. But he was fine with it. We did have a date a week after we connected on Match. We got together on a Saturday at a brunch place.

Jodi: So, he asked you out very early on into your back and forth conversation?

Cindy: Yes, he did.

Jodi: Who got to the place first?

Cindy: He had never been to the restaurant. He asked me to recommend a place to go and I recommended a couple of places. He chose the brunch place. He looked it up online and saw that it could get quite busy. So, he got there early to put our name on the waiting list.

Jodi: Very nice. Now tell me, you were a little concerned — it was a little yellow flag for you that he was separated. As you were getting ready to meet Mike, what was going through your head?

Cindy: Well, I knew that I wanted to have a conversation with him and learn more about his separation and talk about it on the date. Then, depending on what Mike said, I would determine whether I would see him again.

Jodi: He got there before you. How very thoughtful of him. When you showed up, did you recognize him right away? Did he look like his photos?

Cindy: Yes. He did look like his photos and we check to see how much time we had and then we took a little walk. There’s a shopping center at where the restaurant was and we stopped in one of the shops and started chatting and actually right then, I brought up about him being separated and asked about the situation with his wife and their separation and he told me some details that made me feel at ease with going out with him.

Jodi: You wasted no time. That was clearly on your mind!

Cindy: Yes, and I thought it might be easier to ask while walking around side by side than sitting across from each other in a restaurant with a bunch of people around. It was almost like it was more of a private conversation.

Jodi: How did he respond to you asking such a pointed question so early in your being together?

Cindy: He totally understood that I was justified in being concerned. He shared the details about his wife asking for the divorce. He had been surprised, but they were moving through it quickly. He was ready to move on with his life. It was his second marriage. So I learned quite a bit about his background and his family situation on our first date.

Jodi: When you return to the restaurant, what happened next?

Cindy: We ordered. He’d lived in New Mexico for a number of years, so he was really particular about his choice of green sauce or red sauce. He ordered enchiladas and they brought the wrong sauce. I said, “Oh, do you want to say anything?” And he’s like, “No, that’s okay.” We chatted quite a while. It may have been close to two hours. At that point, I gave him my card and we exchanged emails. I indicated that I would be interested in seeing him again.

Jodi: How did you say goodbye at the end of your date?

Cindy: We hugged.

Jodi: Were you thinking ‘I’d like to kiss this man’?

Cindy: Well, not there in a restaurant and a first date. No. He did walk me to my car, so that was nice. We hugged at the car actually not in the restaurant.

Jodi: He was showing a lot of gentlemanly behaviors.

Cindy: I was very impressed that he made a point to get there early and put our name on the waiting list.

Jodi: Yeah, and walked you to your car.

Cindy: Yes.

Jodi: So, what happened next?

Cindy: We made plans to go on a hike. Our second date was a hike. That was really nice. I have on my profile a lot of photos of hiking and I indicate that I like hiking. We were emailing back and forth and watching the weather because it wasn’t the greatest weather, but it was nice enough. So, we made plans to go on a hike the next weekend.

Jodi: Let’s get into the rest of the story. What happened on the hike?

Cindy: I did have him pick me up at my house because we’re not going to like meet at a park for the hike. So, he picked me up and was on time. We drove to this lovely spot and hiked through the woods. There were a number of streams. I got a little tentative. I had broken my wrist in the fall. This date a couple months after I had had surgery and healed. The reason I had broken my wrist is that I’d fallen, so he was very kind and helped me, like held his hand out to help me cross a couple of the streams and rocky spots. So that was very sweet. Sometimes he was in the lead and sometimes I was in the lead. We did talk a bit along the hike. There were other people there because someone might think, “A second date? You’re going to go out in the woods alone with a man you just met?”

Jodi: Right! They could think that.

Cindy: But I felt comfortable enough with him. Also, I had researched him, found him online, found other information about him and we had shared enough and everything I found online was verified. So I didn’t feel any reason to feel unsafe and then he demonstrated that through his gentlemanly manner.

Jodi: Good. You went with your gut on this one.

Cindy: Yes.

Jodi: How did that date end?

Cindy: Well, it ended saying goodbye, again a hug. I think he was really taking seriously, may expressing concern about him being separated and not moving really fast. So that was fine by me, not to kiss goodbye. We did exchange emails. He’s a prolific writer. He started emailing me a couple of times a week and telling me more about himself and asking me more questions. If I can share one of the emails after the date…. At 9:50 p.m., he wrote, Hi, Cindy. I just wanted to say hello because I’m starting to see you your face behind my eyelids.

Jodi: Whoa!

Cindy: I hope you don’t feel any pressure as I don’t intend that. I just tend to wear my feelings on my sleeve. So I will seem to say what’s on my mind probably for better or worse, I guess. I hope you had a good day.

Jodi: That’s not your typical email, especially after a second date…eyelids and all! What were you thinking after that landed in your inbox and you read it?

Cindy: I was surprised that he was so expressive because he’s an engineer and I kind of have a stereotype. My husband had been an English major and was very expressive. I was just like, “Well, this guy really likes me and he’s thinking about me a lot!” I wasn’t thinking about him that much, but I was a little bit overwhelmed. I was like, “Well, that’s nice that he shared that with me, if that’s how he’s feeling.” Then I’m kind of like, “Well, he was just separated.” There was a little bit of second-guessing. It was a little confusing.

Jodi: I can understand how it could be a little confusing and exciting at the same time. What happened next?

Cindy: We were in touch a bit through email. He had invited me after the holidays to go and see the Chinese dance acrobatic group, Shen Yun, with his two children.

Jodi: With his two children?

Cindy: Yes. We had talked about our children. He has a 17-year-old daughter who’s a senior and a 19-year-old son who is figuring out what he wants to do with his life. Mike had four tickets and in email, he asked if I would like to go with them, that he had told his children about me and that they were looking forward to meeting me.

Jodi: Wow! That’s really fast! This man is moving really fast! How did you feel about that?

Cindy: You know, he had told me about his children and they sounded adorable and really interesting. I had never seen Shen Yun and I had heard about them a lot. I’m like, “Well, you know, it’s him inviting his kids out. I’m not inviting mine. And if he’s comfortable with that, I’m kind of like open to doing things.” And so I was like, “Okay, sure.” The four of us went out for dinner beforehand. They all came to the front door of my house and picked me up.

Jodi: They all came to your door?

Cindy: Yes! I could see he’s really close to his kids. After the performance, when they were bringing me home, I invited them to my guesthouse. We went up to the upper deck where I have a view of the downtown area of our town. The two children each hugged me goodbye when they left and their dad hugged me also. It was a very nice evening. At dinner I talked to the children quite a bit because they’re adults – they’re 17 and 19. It was almost like, I felt like their dad was showing them off to me like, “Hey, look what a great guy I am! Look what great kids I have! I’m a good dad.”

Jodi: Were you feeling that he was auditioning in a way?

Cindy: Yes! That’s very well stated.

Jodi: Would you ever consider taking your children on a date with you after you’d met someone only two times before?

Cindy: No.

Jodi: Was that third date a typical third date for you, or was that one unique?

Cindy: That was a very unique date. I can’t say on a third date, or anywhere near the top five or six dates, that I’ve met someone’s children….and not only meet them, but spent the evening with them.

Jodi: Where did the relationship go from there?

Cindy: We went out some more. On our sixth date, he invited me to his home, which is outside of town. He lives about an hour from me. He has a large property with a woods on it. We met out in the town near his home and had a late lunch. He actually gave me a 3D printed model of my guesthouse that he and his daughter had put together! It was sort of a Valentine’s Day present because it was around February. He handed that to me at lunch. It was so sweet! He said, “My daughter and I made this.” And then we spent the afternoon at his house and took a walk through his wooded property. It was very lovely.

Jodi: That’s really something! And the kids liked you so much that they got involved in this project. The daughter wanted to give the gift to you with her dad. You clearly touched the daughter!

Cindy: Yeah. They are really a remarkable pair of children.

K: How did things end that afternoon, or evening, between the two of you?

Cindy: Well, I had driven out there. He didn’t pick me up because it was out of town. I had another date that night, because I was still going out with other people. So I had to dash out of there. But we had kissed a couple of times in our previous dates. When we went for a walk in the woods, I was kind of more the one initiating being close to him because I felt it was very romantic in the woods.

We kissed in the woods, but he wasn’t moving forward beyond that in any manner. I wasn’t going to be too aggressive about it either, but I was interested in getting to know him more in that way, but I felt kind of either a reticence or something that he was taking it slow with me maybe because he was still separated and how I had acted before. But it was our sixth date, so I was anxious to get to know him more romantically.

Jodi: Understandably.

Cindy: Yeah, and especially being out at his home and his showing me around the property. His son did end up being there. I don’t know if he was planning on him being there. His son had been on a trip and came home while we were there. But initially, we were on our own and his daughter had been away that weekend. I was even kind of wondering if we were going to be intimate at his home, but we were not.

Jodi: How did the relationship develop from there?

Cindy: I was out of town after that. I went to see my grandchildren. Mike and I were emailing a bit back and forth and then when I came home, I had a niece visiting me. It was a busy time. We weren’t seeing each other and he, like I mentioned, lived an hour away. So it’s not like he could easily pop by one afternoon, or whatever. And then I got an email and….essentially he broke up with me! He said he’d met another woman.

Jodi: Really? Wow! That must have come out of left field for you.

Cindy: Yes. I was very surprised. He indicated in the email that he had waited until I was back from my trip to tell me about it. He wrote, I cannot bear deceiving either you or my new friend.

He wanted to tell me about how he’d met her, and they’d been chatting, and they had dinner, and everything just clicked. I share this with my mother and my mother said, “Well, that other woman had sex with him. That’s how it took.” (Laughter)

Jodi: Do you think your mother was right?

Cindy: Absolutely!

Jodi: Do you have any regrets in the way you handled it with him?

Cindy: I don’t. I don’t have regrets. He was a good guy, but I didn’t have this driving physical attraction to him. I mean not that you necessary know after six dates, but we were both kind of a little reticent about that, and like I said, he did email a lot! In one of his emails, he wrote You know, I really enjoy being with you, like your soft kisses, but you can kind of feel I’m holding back.

I guess both of us were, for whatever reason. I’m glad I was because, if I had been intimate with him, I would have been pretty crushed. I wasn’t going out with him exclusively either. So, it’s all fine.

Jodi: Did you decide to keep the 3D model after the two of you broke up?

Cindy: Absolutely! I have it here in my own house. Hey, that’s my memento from that short-lived three-month, six date relationship.

Jodi: What did you learn from the experience?

Cindy: Well, I’m glad we took it slow and I’m glad that I questioned him about his separation. I don’t know, maybe I wouldn’t go out with a man who’s separated again because he’s still working through a lot of things. It’s kind of surprising to me that he was jumping so quickly with another woman. Are they still together? I don’t know. Maybe he just doesn’t have the greatest judgment, bringing his two children on our third date! But it’s a little confusing because the other thing is, as you get older, you’re kind of like, “Well, there’s not a lot of time left in our lives, 10 years, 20 years.” Do you want to wait like maybe you do when you’re younger? I don’t know.

Jodi: These are things you think about.

Cindy: Yes.

Jodi: Are there things that you have answers to?

Cindy: No, I don’t have the answers.

Jodi: Are you figuring it out as you go?

Cindy: My approach is to be open to men who I might not have considered when I was in college or younger; to take each experience for what it’s worth and not take it personally on me; to know that it’s the other person and I’m just being my authentic self, and then see where it goes from there.

Jodi: Bravo for being your authentic self! That’s the person that needs to show up on dates and needs to be out there meeting people, right?

Cindy: Yes, it is.

Jodi: You’ve come to this conversation having experienced tremendous loss at an earlier stage in your life. There are women listening to us talk who have also had loves of theirs pass away. What thoughts or advice do you have for them about finding love again?

Cindy: For me, my marriage and my relationship was positive. It was joyful, even though it ended tragically. I don’t have the kind of negative feelings that may be other women may have experienced with a marriage that wasn’t as successful. But as a widow, I know I can’t replicate and find again the man that I had two children with and raised a family and built a life with.

So now at this stage in my life, I’m open to meeting different men and seeing what they have. I know I need someone who is financially secure and someone who adores me for who I am. It’s different things than I looked for, or that I wanted, when I was first married. Back then I was looking for a man to build a life with and raise a family. So my advise is to think about what’s important to you and to be open to what the gentlemen out there may be able to bring to your life.

Jodi: Beautifully stated! Thank you for sharing that. It’s been terrific talking to you, Cindy. Thanks so much.

Cindy: Oh, thank you, Jodi. It’s my pleasure.

The post Cindy and Mike appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Welcome, Natasha. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Natasha: Thank you very much. It’s my pleasure.

Jodi: We’re here today to talk about a first date that you went on, but let’s talk about something else first. Please share a little bit about what you enjoy doing and what brings you joy in life.

Natasha: I enjoy hiking and I enjoy nature. I enjoy being outside. I work as a botanist, so I get to be outside and get paid to study plants and help improve the environment. I also love yoga and I love going to talks and movies and being with my friends and my husband.

Jodi: And your husband! So you’re currently married. When this date took place, were you divorced or single?

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Natasha: I was single. I had been in a number of relationships, most rather short relationships that hadn’t gone where I had hope it’d go. I’ve been single a lot of my life as well.

Jodi: How old were you when this date took place?

Natasha: I was 38. That was just over five years ago.

Jodi: What was going on in your life around the time that you went on this date?

Natasha: I was working at a nonprofit that promoted green building. We were working with private homes and public agencies to improve building standards and energy efficiency and comfort.

Jodi: You were really busy with work at that point in your life, not that you’re not busy with it now.

Natasha: Definitely busy with work. I also was on the board of a women’s group, another environmental group. We were producing events and hikes and networking opportunities for career women.

Jodi: What’s the name of the guy who you went on a date with?

Natasha: Ed.

Jodi: How did Ed and you come to meet?

Natasha: We met on a dating website, OkCupid. I had been on a number of different dating websites. I’d tried Match. I actually even tried paper ads way back after college, but OkCupid was recommended to me by a girlfriend and it became quite fruitful.

Jodi: Did you go on a lot of dates through OkCupid around that time?

Natasha: A handful. Yeah. I was actually dating several people when I met Ed.

Jodi: How was it doing online dating? Were you comfortable with it? Did you enjoy it?

Natasha: It was challenging. I found it awkward and fun, some fun and exhilaration, but also awkward first conversations. Some of the pictures I saw on there were just strange.

Jodi: Who contacted who first? Did you see Ed or did he see you?

Natasha: He emailed me and that was a policy that I implemented at some point. I had sent out a number of messages to people and around when I met Ed I had decided I’m going to let the men come to me.

Jodi: What was the reason that you change your approach?

Natasha: I think I just wanted a traditional relationship, male-female roles. And I started to realize if the men that I’m dating don’t have some initiative, then that’s already a red flag.

Jodi: I get it. He emailed you. Did you look at his profile right away?

Natasha: Of course.

Jodi: What did you think?

Natasha: He looked cute and successful and fit and interesting, and so yeah, I was excited.

Jodi: What made Ed stand out from the rest?

Natasha: He wrote a very nice, thoughtful email. He had read my profile, which makes a big difference, and he put a little bit out about himself. He seemed to have a great career and be interested in sports and the environment and science.

Jodi: Was he single or had he been married?

Natasha: He had been married for quite a while and was divorced.

Jodi: He was divorced at the time. He wasn’t separated.

Natasha: It wasn’t finalized.

Jodi: So, he was separated?

Natasha: Yeah.

Jodi: But that was fine with you? Did he have kids?

Natasha: He have two kids, 10 and 14.

Jodi: You had no kids at that time.

Natasha: No kids.

Jodi: How did you feel about going out with a guy who had kids?

Natasha: You know, the kids are a big factor, but you start with the relationship and make sure that that seems interesting for both of you and then see how the kids fit in.

Jodi: You were open to it.

Natasha: Exactly. Yeah.

Jodi: Do you remember how you responded to his email and what he had written?

Natasha: I actually saved it all on my computer. I think it was just a little back and forth about science and work.

Jodi: He’s a scientist?

Natasha: Yeah. We both work in science, so that was a nice overlap.

Jodi: You were wooed by science!

Natasha: Right!

Jodi: Nice!

Natasha: And the title of his first email to me was “Green Building and Science.” A man for my heart.

Jodi: I guess so. How did the “wooing” evolve?

Natasha: Well, we emailed a couple times and talked about potential times to get together. So I think it was over a week that we shared a little bit and we had shared our phone numbers. But I don’t think we’d spoken before we met.

Jodi: Was it an evening date or an afternoon date?

Natasha: Late afternoon.

Jodi: Where were you meeting?

Natasha: We decided to meet in a local park that’s in the neighborhood.

Jodi: So he was local to you?

Natasha: Yes. We are both from the same area, which was a really interesting coincidence. We actually had a lot of shared experiences and both of us had lived in the same area for over 10 years. Same grocery store, same park, a lot of the same cafes. But I think when you get older, I kind of assumed that a lot of these guys are married as he had been. I just wasn’t looking at every guy that was around me. So, we could have bumped into each other previously and not have realized it.

Jodi: Do remember how you were feeling when you were getting ready to meet him at the park?

Natasha: A little excited and nervous. I think most dates bring that up. There’s a little risk factor, but hope and excitement.

Jodi: Where did you guys rendezvous? Was there a specific place in the park?

Natasha: We met by the Old Scout Hut. I think I got there a few minutes before him. I was looking around and stretching a little bit. I think I had some athletic clothes on. I believe he wore jeans. I don’t remember what he wore on top, but he wore some jeans that fit him just right and that really stood out for me later. I wasn’t a hundred percent convinced about him, but I knew his jeans looked really good on him!

Jodi: From the front and the back?

Natasha: From the front and the back — from all sides. Yeah.

Jodi: Take me through what happened, please.

Natasha: We saw each other in the park by the Scout Hut and we looked around and kind of gave that nod of acknowledgement, like, “Oh, you must be the person,” and smiled. We chitchatted a little bit about that being a park that we both knew and had used for years. We ended up walking up the creek through this park and talking and hearing about his work and my work and his kids.

Jodi: Was the conversation flowing?

Natasha: Not badly. I remember some flow and some nervousness too and then at times feeling like he talked too much.

Jodi: Did you think that was because he was nervous, or he was just a talker, or you really didn’t know?

Natasha: I think it was both. He’s a bit of a talker and so it was exciting to hear him talk about all this stuff. But also I felt like, sometimes he wouldn’t listen or encouraged me to keep talking. That’s been a theme that I’ve had with him and other men. There was a little bit of frustration about the challenge with the conversation.

Jodi: Did you say anything at that time?

Natasha: No, just went with it and kept hiking.

Jodi: You do wonder. I did wonder. Is he doing that because he’s nervous, or because he has no one else to talk to and he just needs to talk to someone, or because he’s all about himself?

Natasha: Exactly!

Jodi: And is that a red or yellow flag?

Natasha: Exactly. There were all those thoughts in my mind. I was interested in what he had to say, but it was also like, “Are you going to listen a little bit too? Is this guy so full of himself?”

Jodi: Yeah.

Natasha: But mostly, it was good. I liked that he was outdoorsy and adventurous and kept pace with me pretty well. I think just physically getting used to someone navigating difficult terrain can be something that tells compatibility or not.

Jodi: The walk through the park at the creek was difficult?

Natasha: It ends. And then you have to start walking over rocks and through the creek, over different rocks, to the other side, and around this tunnel.

Jodi: Were the two of you ultimately in a secluded area together?

Natasha: Yeah.

Jodi: How did you feel about that? You didn’t know this man and you went with him into a part of the park that others couldn’t see you in. You were alone.

Natasha: Good question. Yeah. I tend to just trust my instincts and for sure, there was no one else around. There were no red flags at all as far as that. He seemed like a very sweet, family guy, and very trustworthy.

Jodi: Got it. You’re out there. You’re climbing over rocks and through tunnels in the late afternoon.

Natasha: Right. Yeah.

Jodi: What happened at that point in the date?

Natasha: We kept going and then you can crawl up this little trail to the side and that gets you back into city streets and a neighborhood. So you’re walking down sidewalks and down to the main street and then there’s cafes. We did a neighborhood walk and then went to a cafe and stopped and had some coffee and, I think, a snack.

At that point, I felt like he started to reveal too much. He was telling me about his mother’s inheritance and this whole family battle with his aunt. I was like, “This is kind of a lot for the first time I’ve ever met you.” That actually made me feel a little awkward.

Jodi: How many hours into the date were you?

Natasha: A couple hours, two or three hours.

Jodi: He clearly was feeling comfortable with you to disclose more personal details about his life and his family.

Natasha: Yeah.

Jodi: It sounds like you were not at that point at all.

Natasha: It just seemed a little odd. I’m like, “Am I supposed to be tracking your whole family saga?” But I thought it was cute and interesting. But I was like, “Maybe he’s a little like unstable.” It was hard to know if he was just very trusting or a little unstable. That’s a lot of information at once.

Jodi: Right.

Natasha: Yeah. Then he also told me about his kids and he stopped and called his kids, which also gave me some time to process. But there’s a lot of emotions going on and kind of confusion about what this all meant.

Jodi: Right. It sounds like you were enjoying your time, but not sure exactly what was going on.

Natasha: Yeah, exactly. And the information and just the feelings around it all.

Jodi: As the day progressed, did you get more clues from him as to what he was thinking about you and him on this date?

Natasha: There were signs that it was going well. He seemed interested and positive and receptive. After the cafe, we decided it was time to go home. It’s kind of a loop. I walked him down from the cafe towards the park again. He reached out and gave me a hug, which I thought was sweet, and then he asked me if I was free the next day. So I was like, “Oh, he does like me,” and “that’s sudden,” but sure it was Saturday. Sunday was open. I was like, “Sure, let’s get together tomorrow night.”

Jodi: He did not leave you to wonder.

Natasha: Right, which was really great.

Jodi: Yeah.

Natasha: Why toy with each other? You know?

Jodi: That’s really refreshing.

Natasha: Absolutely! Yeah. I really like that.

Jodi: But you still had questions, a lot of questions, in your mind about his oversharing.

Natasha: Yeah, and the conversation dynamic and how the kids fit in and the tension between dating and the kids.

Jodi: When you went home, did you get on the phone and call your friends or text your girlfriends?

Natasha: I’m sure I talked to some friends. I don’t remember exactly what happened. But I was excited and a little nervous and wondering what it all meant.

Jodi: Please share the rest of the story of what happened with you and Ed.

Natasha: Well, we dated the next night. I’ll briefly say we met at a restaurant and I was expecting him let’s say at 6:30pm. I got there at 6:30pm. He didn’t show, he didn’t show. So I was like, “Oh, second date.” But 15 minutes later he called me and said he was running late. He was working on a wine project with some of his friends. So that irritated me that on the second date he was late.

Jodi: You waited?

Natasha: Yeah, I waited. He got there 25 minutes later.

Jodi: What did you say when he showed up?

Natasha: I was a little irritated. But he’s like, “I’m sorry. I was in the middle of something.”

Jodi: Did he bring you any wine?

Natasha: Not that night. No. But since then, I’ve gotten plenty of wine. So it works out. But we did have a nice dinner and kept dating. A couple weeks later, we saw a movie and I remember just sitting next to him and loving his laugh. Having something else to focus on, but being aware of him and hearing him laugh was the most nurturing, reassuring sound. I was really struck by what a nice laugh he had. And then as we left the movie, he put his arm around me and that was really sweet too. But no kissing.

Jodi: No kissing for how long?

Natasha: For several weeks.

Jodi: And that was okay with you?

Natasha: Yeah. That was kind of part of the plan. One of my girlfriends had been coaching me and that was part of my plan.

Jodi: Explain more about that strategy please.

Natasha: I was just like the sense of developing a friend, a friend and someone that you can converse with, that you enjoy being with, that you can get to know in a non-physical way. That was what my girlfriend was coaching me on and I felt that was right for where I was in my life.

Jodi: Did you tell Ed that this was the way you wanted things to go? That you didn’t want to kiss him for a while in the early stages of your relationship? Or he just didn’t make a move?

Natasha: I think I gave some signals. But yeah, I kept a little distance. I think he was respectful too. He knew and he wasn’t looking for something short term. He was looking for a long-term relationship.

Jodi: Do you remember any times when he made the move and you turned away and responded with a hug or something else? (Laughter)

Natasha: No. There were a couple of hugs and I don’t know if I like moved a little bit away. I don’t think he really tried to plant a kiss on me until it was about our fourth date. And then once we started kissing, there was no stopping!

Jodi: Ah. That happened about a month in?

Natasha: Yeah, three weeks or so.

Jodi: Is that a strategy that you would recommend to other women?

Natasha: I would feel it out. But yeah, I’ve tried different things and at that point in my life, I think that was definitely the best….just finding someone that you’re real compatible as a friend with, and knowing that the attraction is there. Of course physical attraction is really important. But to me having good rapport was essential before you get physical.

Jodi: Once you started with the kissing, do you think that that elevated things to a different level between the two of you when it came to intimacy?

Natasha: Yeah, I think there was kind of a lot pent-up energy and excitement. So yeah, things were very elevated. Yeah, there was a lot of chemistry between us. Once that kind of fire came on, it started gushing, I guess. (Laughter)

Jodi: So ultimately, where did your relationship with Ed evolved to?

Natasha: It just kept growing and getting the kids into our relationship was a whole another level. Of course, each of them has feelings about having another woman in their dad’s life. Some of that was a challenge, but it went quite well. We kept growing for about six months and then I was getting some signals that were not working for me. So then I actually broke it off and said, “Okay, we’re separating. This is not working.” I think a lot of it was conversation, but it was also different take on spirituality and what’s important. That had been a strain.

Within a few days, he’s like, “Well, can we just talk?” And I was like, “Okay, we can talk.” He had written out some notes about all these feelings he had. He had talked to his therapist and he had a lot to share. He was like, “Let’s just be friends. I don’t want to lose you.” And then that just started it all up again. I was like, “Oh, that’s so sweet and thoughtful.” And then I was like, “Okay, we can be friends.” But we were never, we could never.. (Laughter)

Jodi: You were never just friends.

Natasha: No. No. We were never just friends. But it shifted the relationship, the tensions that were there before. We addressed them. It helped a lot.

Jodi: You were able to get past your personal concerns about spirituality?

Natasha: Yeah. I felt like he could see that part of me much more clearly and was more willing to listen and be more sensitive in the relationship.

Jodi: Was that a break up, or maybe it really was pressing “pause” more than completely breaking up?

Natasha: Well, I saw it as a breakup. I was really sad. It felt like something I’ve been thinking about for a while and then I said it and said goodnight and then the whole next day I was like, “Oh, it was so sad to lose him.”

Jodi: So you didn’t see in him, at the time, having the ability to meet you where you wanted him to meet you?

Natasha: Correct. Yeah.

Jodi: It turns out you underestimated what he ultimately was able to do and the way he was able to evolve, to be in the relationship.

Natasha: Yeah. Yeah. Since then, we’ve totally grown together. I feel like we’re a really solid team. So yeah. I underestimated him. I felt like he just wasn’t open enough, I think, for me previously.

Jodi: Where are the two of you now in your relationship?

Natasha: We’re great. We’re married. We’ve been married for a couple years and we’re very happy.

Jodi: That’s fantastic.

Natasha: Yeah.

Jodi: Congratulations!

Natasha: Thank you. Thank you.

Jodi: Now I’m curious. What advice you have for the women who are listening?

Natasha: Sure. Well, partly thinking about this podcast and reflecting back on this time in my life, I pulled out some my journals and I realized that journaling was very helpful because each step of the way you have mixed feelings and challenges. But sometimes just putting all that down on paper and supporting yourself through working through your thoughts and your feelings with each relationship is helpful. And also I think friends and girlfriends, talking about what you want, putting it out there that you’re looking for a relationship, and talking about the challenges and strategies.

Jodi: Yeah, telling everybody you know that you’re interested in meeting someone to date is a great suggestion.

Natasha: And just knowing that there is someone. I believe everybody’s totally lovable and that there is someone out there for you. So just trust that and just know that the situation will appear when the time’s right.

Jodi: Love it! I absolutely love it! And it worked for you.

Natasha: Yes, surprisingly, but I’m very happy it did.

Jodi: I don’t know about ‘surprisingly.’

Natasha: At times, I didn’t think it would work. But yeah, it’s worked great.

Jodi: But you kept at it.

Natasha: Yep, I kept at it.

Jodi: Why did you keep at it if you doubted at times? Because I know there are women listening who are doubting at times, unfortunately. I doubted at times. I’d love to hear from you what it was that kept propelling you forward.

Natasha: Well, one thing that helped was a visioning class. I took a visioning class just before that. It was about being creative and thinking about what excites you, making collages, writing out and imagining what you want in your life, taking space for yourself and dreaming about what you want. That was a good tactic that I did just before I met Ed. I think in some ways, just feeding the things that make you happy and spending less time on things that worry you, or make you feel not happy.

Jodi: That’s such a healthy approach to take, to get centered on what you want and see it for yourself. Then that way, when you experience it you’ll know that this is what you want because you’ve already pictured it and you’ve already kind of processed it.

Natasha: Yeah. I think making some space in your mind and in your heart for this makes you open and aware and available when your life starts to shift.

Jodi: Wonderful. Thank you for talking with me about your first date with Ed. I’ve enjoyed it immensely. I hope our listeners have also learned a great deal and I thank you so much for being here on the show with me.

Natasha: It’s been my pleasure. Thank you.

Photo by Ben Klea on Unsplash

The post Natasha and Ed appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Welcome, Isabel. It’s terrific to have you on the podcast.

Isabel: Hi, Jodi. Thank you so much for having me.

Jodi: We’re going to talk about a first date that you went on. But before we do that, I know our listeners are interested in hearing about you.

Isabel: Me, I’m a 40-something. I’m married. I have a dog, no children. I love being outdoors and I love practicing yoga.

Jodi: This date that we’re going to talk about, is it a date that you had with the man you’re married to now?

Isabel: No.

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Jodi: Okay. So, somebody else. What’s the name of this somebody else?

Isabel: Todd.

Jodi: How did you and Todd cross paths?

Isabel: In my single days, I was out at a bar with some girlfriends, just having fun and this really good looking guy came up to me and started talking to me and offered to buy me a drink. We just kind of hit it off.

Jodi: What were your first impressions about him when he walked up to you?

Isabel: I thought he was really hot!

Jodi: All right. So you were into it. Tell me a little bit about what he looked like.

Isabel: He was just tall, really beautiful eyes, a really great smile, just kind of like that guy that’s just really easy on the eyes.

Jodi: So you were liking what you saw?

Isabel: I was liking what I saw. Apparently, he was too.

Jodi: Yeah, clearly. What happened between the two of you at the bar?

Isabel: Just kind of small talk, chatting, flirting, but that kind of fun, kind of flirting…banter back and forth.

Jodi: What were your girlfriends doing while you were talking to Todd?

Isabel: They were kind of doing their own thing at the bar. Having shots. But they kept looking and kind of giving me that nudge like, “This guy’s a cutie. This guy’s a hottie. Keep up the conversation. Don’t let this one get away.”

Jodi: All right!

Isabel: Yeah.

Jodi: Where did things go with Todd that night?

Isabel: Nothing spicy really happened. We ended with exchanging numbers and he was like, “I’d really like to see you again. Can I take you to dinner?” I was like, “Yeah, sure. Of course.” I thought it was kind of cool that we were at a bar. It was late, we were a little buzz and he didn’t try anything. I thought that that was actually kind of cool.

Jodi: You thought he was a gentleman.

Isabel: Yeah, I totally thought he was a gentleman. He got hold of me the next day.

Jodi: That’s impressive. He didn’t wait at all. He was ready to just let you know that he was into you.

Isabel: Yes. I was like, “This is a cool guy.” He’s not waiting three, four days – that game guys play. He was really sweet and respectful to me. He was generous and he was hot. What else could a girl ask?

Jodi: Great combination. Yes. Did he text you? Did he call you? How the two of you connect?

Isabel: He texted me, which I was okay with because this is just the way it is these days, texting. It kind of made me a little more comfortable. I could think about what I needed to say rather than feeling right on the spot on the telephone.

Jodi: Did he ask you out when you were texting that day?

Isabel: He did. Yes. The texts were about, “It was really great meeting you,” stuff like that and then he was like, “I’d love to take you to dinner. Are you available Tuesday?” This was Monday. It was the next day.

Jodi: He didn’t want to waste any time.

Isabel: No time wasted.

Jodi: Clearly he was really into you.

Isabel: Clearly. Yeah.

Jodi: Nice.

Isabel: Yeah. It felt good.

Jodi: Your response was?

Isabel: Sure. Of course, I’d love to have dinner with you.

Jodi: What happened next?

Isabel: We made plans to meet the following evening at a restaurant closer to my home. I told him I’d meet him there.

Jodi: Smart.

Isabel: Yeah.

Jodi: You met him at a bar.

Isabel: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Jodi: How were you feeling as you were getting ready to go out and meet him?

Isabel: I was excited just to go on a date with a cute guy. I don’t think I was getting butterfly or whatever. But it’s fun to be a girl and it’s fun to get dressed up and to feel pretty and to put your makeup on. So yes, I was in that mode, kind of texting friends, “Hey, is this shirt look good or is that shirt look good? What do you think?”

Jodi: You were into it!

Isabel: I was.

Jodi: Did you get to the restaurant before him?

Isabel: No. He arrived before I did.

Jodi: When you walked in, where was he?

Isabel: He was having a drink, waiting for me. I walked in and I was like, “Hey!” And he turned around. We gave each other a big hug.

Jodi: Did the two of you have a drink at the bar first before you sat down?

Isabel: Yeah. We did. He got me a glass of wine.

Jodi: So how was it being at the bar intentionally together?

Isabel: It was fun. We picked back up on that flirty banter.

Jodi: How were you feeling? And what was he telling you about himself as you were hanging out at the bar together?

Isabel: I was feeling good. I felt I really liked my outfit and he was just complimenting me and kind of asking a lot of questions about me, which is nice and refreshing.

Jodi: That’s nice. What happened after you were done with your drink at the bar?

Isabel: So we had our drink at the bar. The hostess came and said our table was ready. We went and sat…it was a great kind of hip restaurant. It was farm-to-table. We sat outside in this cute little garden that they had. Great music was playing. It was a setup for a great night.

Jodi: Tell me how things went.

Isabel: It was a really great menu. I remember we were talking back and forth…“Oh, you get this. Can I have a bite if you get that?” So already feeling super comfortable with each other.

Jodi: How did things go from there?

Isabel: Things were going great. We were having a great conversation and then we started up another conversation. There’s something in the news. It’s about a football player who was accused of rape, or something, and he’d liked this team and that’s why he’d come up.

Jodi: Todd had liked the team?

Isabel: Todd had liked the football team. We’re talking about it and I was like, “Yeah, that poor woman, it must be really hard with somebody really famous.” And he’s like, “Yeah. Yeah. Well, those people do stuff like that.”

Jodi: He was talking about the football player?

Isabel: Yeah, the football player, those people. I was like, “Those people?” At first I was thinking, “Maybe he just means athletes. Athletes have reputations. They’re kind of players. They have a lot of money. They kind of do whatever they want.” And so I said, “Can you elaborate…those people?” And he was like, “black people.”

Jodi: And you said what to him?

Isabel: “Excuse me?! What do you mean ‘black people’?” He said, “Well, you know, he’s black. Of course he probably raped her.”

Jodi: Wow!

Isabel: Yeah.

Jodi: First of all, that’s outrageous and awful.

Isabel: Horrifically awful.

Jodi: And shameful. The guy is not a gentleman.

Isabel: No, not even close.

Jodi: But there’s an element here that makes it even more harsh.

Isabel: Yes. The element here is….I said, “Are you kidding me?” Went through all that. He wasn’t. And I said, “My father’s black.” His jaw dropped and he’s like, “I just thought you had a really great tan.”

Jodi: That’s just awful! (Laughter)

Isabel: It’s so awful. (Laughter) It’s so awful that all you can do is laugh about it.

Jodi: Exactly. What an idiot! (Laughter)

Isabel: Moron. Completely.

Jodi: How did you handle that? You’re sitting at the table with him. You were attracted to this guy. What did you do?

Isabel: Well, everything I felt about Todd had gone out the door. As I got over the shock, and he was still in his shock about my father being black, I politely ended the dinner. I got to go!

Jodi: Good for you!

Isabel: There’s no reason for me to get crazy, throw a drink in his face. That’s on him. That’s his stuff. Not my stuff.

Jodi: You handled that amazingly well. What a class act you are!

Isabel: Thank you. I think it was just such the shock to be in front of that and really have it happening. I was actually proud of myself that that was my reaction as well.

Jodi: …instead of taking the glass of water and throwing it in his face.

Isabel: Yeah, because if somebody told me that it was their story, the first thing I would think is to get angry and throw the glass of water. But actually being in it, and sitting across and seeing…I think I had more pity for him than anything else.

Jodi: Why did you have pity?

Isabel: Because it’s sad that he was so closed-minded.

Jodi: Perhaps this interaction could have had some impact on his view?

Isabel: Hopefully, it did.

Jodi: You went on a date with a racist!

Isabel: Yes. I did.

Jodi: You in a very dignified manner got up and walked out of that restaurant. Do you remember how you were feeling then? What did you do after you left the restaurant?

Isabel: I was still in shock. I honestly think I was probably talking to myself as I left the restaurant going like, “Did that really just happen?” I was in this like, “Wait, what?” place. So I was still in my own shock. When I left I reached out to one of my girlfriends and said to her, “You’re never going to believe what happened with Todd.” “Hot Todd?” “Yeah, Hot Todd.” “Yeah, Hot Todd is not so hot.”

Jodi: No.

Isabel: I told her the story and it was just like, “Whoa!” Again, she was in shock and it was just one of those things that we just couldn’t believe and kind of laughed about it. It’s a serious issue, but it was just so shocking.

Jodi: Yes.

Isabel: And it’s so obvious that I’m mixed. At least I thought it was.

Jodi: What he saw was a beautiful woman he wanted to get to know.

Isabel: Right!

Jodi: What did you take away from this experience?

Isabel: I was actually really surprised with myself and my reaction and how I handled it. But I also took away that it didn’t stop me from dating. It didn’t stop me from going out and meeting other men. You just never know what’s going to happen on a date. You can have a date that goes sour, you can have a date that goes really sour with a racist. (Laughter)

Jodi: A racist, yeah, you could have a date go really sour with a racist. (Laughter)

Isabel: Or you can go on a date and have a really amazing time. So basically what I got from this is I didn’t give up.

Jodi: It didn’t make you bitter.

Isabel: It didn’t make me bitter. It gave me a really great story that I could tell on dates with guys who were really great.

Jodi: Yes, and on a podcast.

Isabel: And on a podcast. Who knew?

Jodi: Now that you’ve had time to reflect back on this and it’s a few years later, what advice do you have for women?

Isabel: My advice would be don’t play small. Speak your mind. Stick up for yourself and don’t allow it just to keep a man in the room with you because there are a lot of great men out there and it’s not worth it if a guy says something that you feel uncomfortable with. Get up, walk away, and stay strong. Respect yourself.

Jodi: That is superb advice.

Isabel: Thank you.

Jodi: And you did all of that. Thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing this really shocking, but memorable, and now laughable story.

Isabel: Thank you for having me.

Image by RitaE from Pixabay

The post Isabel and Todd appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Hi, Tara. Thanks for coming on the show and for being my guest this episode.

Tara: Hi, it’s my pleasure to be here.

Jodi: Why don’t we start off with you sharing a few details about your backstory with me and with the listeners?

Tara: Well, I am 50 years old. I was married, divorced, now remarried. I have a daughter. I worked as a teacher and then in the regulatory industry. I’m now working as a notary. My hobbies, I love gardening. I read a lot and probably play way too much mahjong.

Jodi: You’re a mahjong addict?

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Tara: I am.

Jodi: Well, I can think of worse things to be addicted to! So let’s get into the date. Where were you in your life when the date that we’re going to talk about took place?

Tara: I was in a very, very fragile state. I was getting divorced and just heartbroken over the death of the dream that I had had of having this marriage, this solid foundation, this forever commitment crumble in front of my eyes.

I had a very angry teenage daughter who was resentful and critical and there was essentially nothing that I could do right at the time. But there were some other things that we could relate around. It seemed to be technology that led us be together and not have her go off and explode over whatever it was that I happen to be doing at the moment. So I had her help me with my online dating profiles and taking pictures and setting those things up. It was helpful to our relationship, as strange as that sounds.

Jodi: How did she come to be okay with your dating?

Tara: My ex-husband was an alcoholic addict and I had a friend recommend going to Al-Anon to help me in dealing and coping effectively with the leftover, just the leftover sewage that comes from addiction. So Al-Anon has a program for kids. So while I was in my meeting, she could be in her meeting and they all talked about their hopes and wishes and I think that it was very therapeutic for her. It was for me for certain.

Jodi: That’s tremendous that you both did this together, not in the room together, but had this similar experience simultaneously so you both could heal from coming out of the marriage.

Tara: Yes. And it is what ultimately led me to the first date that we’re going to talk about. While I was in the program, I was doing online dating, and initially, I didn’t know what I wanted. I just knew that I wanted to get back out there. I wanted to start dating again. So I tried a couple of different dating sites. I kept meeting, essentially, what is the same type of guy that my ex-husband was. First of all, they were dishonest. I’d see these pictures of this thin, vibrant, young looking man and then go to have coffee and it would be this ragged-looking man that was 50 pounds heavier and not quite as vibrant as his picture had appeared.

Jodi: What would you say to him or them when that happened?

Tara: I didn’t say anything. Honestly, I have to say that my face probably said it all. I can’t play poker.

Jodi: You play mahjong. You don’t play poker.

Tara: You got it.

Jodi: So you were disenchanted, I guess, to some degree. You saw a profile, you thought you were going to meet one guy look at one way, wherever you met the same guy but looking a very different way.

Tara: Exactly. And so there was that part of it that was disheartening. Then there were some other men that I had meant that they were younger me, but they didn’t understand the complexities of being a parent and had expressed some ridiculous views and some ridiculous expectations that were unrealistic. So those were just bums, for lack of a better word. They were bums.

Jodi: Here, you were dating these people, you were a bit frustrated with these sites, what did you do?

Tara: In Al-Anon, Al-Anon is a 12-step program. You usually have a sponsor. I had one and I expressed my frustration to her and she asked me, “Do you know what you’re looking for?”

Jodi: Good question.

Tara: Yeah.

Jodi: A very good question.

Tara: Exactly. And I’m like, “No, I guess I don’t.” So her suggestion was to take one piece of paper, make three columns. It must have cannot have and then negotiable items. And so I did that. I just kind of put it to the wayside. I kept it in the back of my head. And then the next time that I went online, I decided that I would modify my profiles on the different sites to more accurately reflect what was in that traits wanted list.

As I was doing this, I saw an ad for JDate popped up and I looked at it. I’m like, “That’s interesting,” and then I’m just like, “Hmm.” I started thinking about it. At the time, my primary care physician was Jewish. And so I’m like, “Doctor? Doctor is Jewish and he is tall. He is handsome. He is educated. He is cultured. He’s articulate. I want somebody like that!”

Jodi: But you are not Jewish.

Tara: No, I’m not. And that was my thought. “I’m not Jewish. I can’t go on there. I’m not Jewish. Man, I’d really like to meet somebody like my doctor.” And so I’m like, “Well, what the heck. I won’t say that I’m Jewish. So I won’t be lying.

When it comes to questions of race, culture, religion, I’ll have to answer honestly.” So when it came to religion, I said, “I was spiritual.” When it came to Ashkenazi or Sephardic…

Jodi: You said “Other”?

Tara: Yeah, I just said “Other.” I came back home from a date that was not good and I was bummed out. I was kind of despondent. When I got home, my daughter was there and she had a friend over and she’s like, “Mom, can we crash in your room because you have a bigger bed. We’ll be more comfortable and then you can go in my room and go online on to the dating sites.”

It did encourage me because it had not been a good date. So I went in and I signed on to both Match and JDate. And within a couple of minutes of being online, I got a ping from some bum guy. I don’t even remember his name. And then a couple minutes later, I got a ping from Lee.

Jodi: Now how long ago did this happen that you got pinged by Lee when you went on JDate?

Tara: It was about six years ago.

Jodi: What did you think when his face popped up on your screen?

Tara: I looked at him. I’m like, “Hmm, he is kind of cute. He is handsome and tan and dark hair.” I like hairy men.

Jodi: Good to know. (Laughter)

Tara: Yes. (Laughter)

Jodi: Now we know a little more about Lee.

Tara: So anyway, I was like, “Hmm, he looks yummy!” I wasn’t looking for a relationship. I was looking just for someone to have fun with. The last thing I wanted was to be in a relationship because I’m going through this icky divorce. My marriage had crumbled and I didn’t want Mr. Right. I just wanted Mr. Right Now.

Jodi: It makes total sense. You’ve been through the ringer and you’re ready to start living again and you wanted someone to be out and about with and get to know and have fun with.

Tara: We had this very flirtatious chat online and I think it was probably 3:00 A.M. before I was like, “Listen, I got to go. I’ve got a two-hour drive to go to my girlfriend’s. We’re going to celebrate her birthday and I got to get up early for that. So I will be back on Sunday. I’ll talk to you then.” The next morning, my daughter and I, we jumped in the truck and drove to my girlfriend’s. While we were there, I was telling my friend, “You know, I met this guy online. There’s just something about him and he’s really cute.”

So I signed under my profile while I was at her place and I showed her his picture and we read through all the stuff and she’s like, “Huh, sounds good!” And of course, I had to check and see if he’d been on my profile. “Was he looking to me? Did he see my pictures?” I was just full of excitement! The next day was Sunday. I went back home and it was later, but I had to go back online and see that cute guy there.

So I did and it was probably about 10 o’clock at night. He was online. He asked me if I wanted to meet for a drink. I’m replied, “Sure. Yeah,” not thinking about the fact that it’s 10:30 at night. And I’m like, “Okay. I’ll meet you at 11:00.” We had agreed upon meeting at this Irish pub. It was about a half an hour drive for me. Thinking about it, I’m just like, “Are you 13? Really? Come on.” I called my girlfriend who’s local and I’m like, “Yeah, I agreed to meet him at this pub.” And she’s like, “Are you nuts?” I said, “Yeah. Yeah. I’m crazy.” So I said, “Well, this is what I’ll do. I’ll go back online. If he’s still online, I’ll reschedule. But if he’s not online, I’m just going to go and make it quick because I don’t want to be flaky.”

Jodi: Did she say that you were crazy to do this because it was so late on a Sunday night, or for another reason?

Tara: Exactly. No, it’s because it was late on a Sunday night. I had to work early and she had applauded the fact that I did not meet him at his house.

Jodi: Very smart.

Tara: Yes, because he had been in the Jacuzzi.

Jodi: He was messaging with you from the Jacuzzi?

Tara: He was on his phone. So yes. He was in the Jacuzzi and I’m just like, “Yeah, no way. I’m not going to do that.” And she’s like, “Well, you know, that’s good.” Yeah, she thought I was nuts. I had to be at work early. I had to be at work at 7:00 A.M. That’s why she was asking me, “Are you nuts?” And I’m just like, “Yeah, I guess so.” I had a meeting I had to prep for. There are all of these things pointed to the fact that this is not a good idea for you to do right at this moment. However, I didn’t want to be a flake. He wasn’t online and I had made the commitment. I got in my truck and I drove to the pub. I got there first. There was one other couple sitting there at a table. The bartender was a woman, which I was very thankful for.

Jodi: Nice.

Tara: I said to her that, “I’m meeting a guy here that I met online and I’m not sure about him. I’m not sure how this is going to go. Can you kind of keep an eye out just in case things get weird?” And she said, “Yeah, sure. I can do that.”

Jodi: You had a wingwoman right there.

Tara: Yes!

Jodi: You had somebody looking out for you. Good thing you got there early. Did you feel a little more calm because another woman was there to help you out if you needed helping during that date?

Tara: Exactly. I felt like, “Okay, somebody’s got my back.” So he got there and I looked at him and I said, “You’ve got a half an hour.”

Jodi: That was your hello?

Tara: That was my hello.

Jodi: How did he react to that greeting?

Tara: You know…big eyes, wide open, sort of blank, and he’s like, “Okay.”

Jodi: Did you like what you saw and did he look like you expected him to look?

Tara: I liked what I saw, and yes, he did. There was definite truth in advertising, in terms of his pictures.

Jodi: Wonderful.

Tara: We sat there and we talked. An hour later, I said, “I got to go!” That half an hour flew by. I never looked at my watch and the conversation flowed. It was easy and I was super comfortable. He paid the tab. And as we were walking out, he’s like, “You know, your picture is not very flattering.”

Jodi: He said that to you as you’re walking out of the bar?

Tara: Yes! He says that to me. “Your picture was not very flattering.” I’m like, “Oh, really?” He’s like, “No.” He said, “You are much prettier than the picture gives the impression of.” And I’m like, “Oh, well, thank you.” He walked me to my truck and I said, “Well, thanks. I hope to talk to you soon.” And I shook his hand and got in my truck and went home.

Jodi: You shook his hand. Who initiated that shake?

Tara: I did.

Jodi: You did. So you set the terms for how the date was going to end. You put that hand out first.

Tara: Exactly. Because even though it had gone great — we definitely clicked and had chemistry — I’m just like, “Nope. No physical stuff. I don’t want to be kissed. I don’t want to be hugged. I don’t want to be touched.” So, I just stuck out my hand. It sent the message. It was a very, very clear nonverbal message that it’s not going to happen. Don’t even try.

Jodi: Do you remember getting any acknowledgement from the bartender before you left? Was she checking out how the two of you were doing and did she follow up with you in any way?

Tara: Oh, yeah. Yeah, she did. She was cleaning the bar by us and, “Everything okay here? Can I get you anything right now?” She was really present but not intrusive. It was wonderful and I did mouth thank you to her as we were leaving

Jodi: Tara, now that we’ve heard about your first date, please share the rest of the story.

Tara: He texted me every day for the next two and a half years.

Jodi: Every day?

Tara: Every day. And at the time, he was traveling a lot for work. He was going to Argentina. He was going to places in Europe. I swear he was in New York every two months – never missed a day.

Jodi: That’s amazing!

Tara: Yeah, it was. I didn’t have his name saved into my phone at first. I just kept getting these text messages from this certain number and then…

Jodi: Wait. How long did this go on, the texting, before you put his name in your contact list?

Tara: A week and a half or two. I think it was about two weeks before I saw him again. We met at that same Irish pub. We’re there for a couple of hours just talking, talking, talking. It was just easy conversation. And then when we went to leave, I let him kiss me.

Jodi: Sweet. Where did things go from there?

Tara: We were both in the same spot when we met. I was crushed and torn because of my failed marriage and he was in the same spot. He had just had his marriage fail. He had been married longer than I and he had three kids. Neither of us were looking for a relationship and especially not to get married again. Because of where we were in our lives, with just wanting somebody to have fun with and hang out with, and have things be easy, we were both relaxed and not worried about where things were going; what’s the next step. It wasn’t something that was desired.

Jodi: How long did you continue dating online before you decided to get off and just be with Lee?

Tara: It was a matter of months. When my subscriptions expired, I decided not to new them. I got a couple of other phone calls and went on other dates, third and fourth dates with some other people that I had met locally. We didn’t really talk about it in a direct manner. But the way that I felt about it was, a) I’m not married, b) we’ve never said anything about being exclusive and c) it’s not his business. It’s my business who I date and I spend time with.

I didn’t feel the need to tell him about it and he didn’t share details with me either. He would say some offhand things that made it clear that he was dating other people. We both got to the point of desiring to just be with one another at different times. I had stopped dating other people and was to a point where I was comfortable with just dating him.

Jodi: Did you tell him that?

Tara: Nope. I didn’t. Well, there were a couple of reasons for it. Number one, I knew where he was at, and just because I was okay with just dating him, I didn’t need him to be in the same spot as me. I was very satisfied with where things were and I needed him to get to that point on his own.

Jodi: Very wise.

Tara: Yeah. You can’t make another person want to, or be, committed to only dating you and expecting it to last if you force the issue.

Jodi: So true. You got to a very healthy place. You really knew where you were at.

Tara: At the start of year three, there was a shift. There was an emotional shift that we had. It shifted to “Yeah, this person is really important to me and the time that we’re spending together, it’s not enough. I want to wake up with you.” We decided to live together and blended our families. It was after we had lived together for a couple of months that we had our anniversary coming up.

Jodi: Which anniversary was this?

Tara: It was the anniversary of us meeting for the first time at the Irish pub. We made plans to go out to a local restaurant. We were able to sit outside and watch the sunset and just a wonderful dinner, a great bottle of wine. He started talking about how happy he was with things and with our relationship. I told him, “I’m happy too. I just want you to understand that living together has a shelf life.”

And to that, he said, “Well, what do you think about making it permanent?” I just kind of curled up my nose thinking about it and then he gets down and he asks, “Will you marry me?” I’m like, “Shut up!”

Jodi: He caught you by surprise!

Tara: I had no idea he was going to propose. None. The people at the surrounding tables realized what was going on and they heard me tell him to shut up. They were all laughing!

Jodi: They’re laughing. What are you doing? Were you laughing or crying?

Tara: I was dumbfounded! Finally, when I get my druthers back about me, I said, “Yes, of course. Yes!” He showed me the ring. Yeah. It was a beautiful night. We got married a year later. We had all of our kids in this ceremony. My best friends, of course, had to be there, both the one whose birthday it was on the day we met, and the one who told me that I was crazy.

Jodi: They both had special roles to play in you and Lee making it to the altar.

Tara: Yes. They did.

Jodi: What a story! You went online not to meet your future husband, but to meet a companion and to heal from pain that your previous marriage had inflicted upon you and you surprisingly, unintentionally, found love and a husband.

Tara: Yes. We both learned valuable lessons from that first go round that we had and are now able to bring more richness to our relationship. It’s something I’m very grateful for.

Jodi: There are women listening to our conversation who have come out of relationships that have been very damaging. What advice do you have, based on your experience, on how to heal and move on and be back in the dating world after such a devastating experience?

Tara: My advice would be to concentrate on yourself and your children, if you have any, first before trying to find something new, or a replacement model for what you left. I know it’s an old clichéd saying, but ‘anything that is good is worth waiting for,’ and it is.

Having talked with my husband over the years, he’s shared how angry women were when he went on dates with them. They were always complaining about an ex. Well, no man that is a potential new relationship wants to hear those sorts of things. It’s much better to take time and engage in some sort of healing activity for yourself before you try to find something new.

Jodi: That’s very sage advice. It’s helpful that you also shared the man’s point of view as to how a guy experiences going out with women who are not at a healthier place yet.

Tara: I was working on me. I wasn’t even 30 percent healed or recovered from the inflicted wounds and heartbreak at the time that I met Lee. But when we went out, I was up front and present and there with him. I was in the moment. He did tell me that that was the reason he kept dating me. It was because I never talked about my ex.

Jodi: It’s as simple as that. Don’t talk about your ex!

Tara: Exactly!

Jodi: Having gone back to dating after so many years away, was there anything that you did differently this time?

Tara: Yes. There was. I wore much more concealing clothing. (Laughter)  I wore turtlenecks that were not skin-tight. I wore jeans that you could not tell what religion I was. (Laughter) I still wore heels. I still looked sharp, but I left a lot to the imagination and was a lot more conservative in my dress because I didn’t want to look fast and easy or fast and sleazy. However you want to put that. So things went slower and it set a good precedent for male behavior. (Laughter)

Jodi: And then occasionally, you put your hand out, which also was an indication that things were going to go slower. It’s been a treat talking to you, Tara. It’s been so much fun to hear the story of how you came from a very dark place and propelled yourself forward with the help of your daughter, and went out into the world again and again and, ultimately, realized what you wanted in a person. Then you found that person and your relationship went much further than you had ever anticipated. And here we are and the two of you are happily married. It’s a great, great tale. I’m so thrilled for you both and I really enjoyed speaking with you.

Tara: It’s been a pleasure. Thank you Jodi, and good luck ladies!

Photo by Christian_Birkholz from Pixabay 

The post Tara and Lee appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Hello, Laura. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It’s terrific that you’re here.

Laura: Thank you for having me.

Jodi: We are going to talk about a first date that you went on. I want to first hear about you. Please, tell me, and tell the listeners, a bit about yourself.

Laura: Well, I’m 46. I’m a PhD student. I’m married and I’ve spent the last 15 years working as a spiritual counselor.

Jodi: You clearly have been doing a lot of significant work in recent years. But in the midst of it all, you found time to do some dating.

Laura: I did. I made it a project to do some dating.

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Jodi: Tell me more about how you came about creating and carrying out this project.

Laura: Well, I was at the time in my life where I really wanted to meet someone and become involved in a serious relationship. So I read several dating books and followed some of their suggestions. In the process, I committed myself to becoming more involved in new groups and meeting new friends, as well as online dating and making space and time for that in my life and opening up that doorway, that window to what I wanted.

Jodi: Looking back, can you see how you evolved as a person during that time?

Laura: Very much so. When I started, I had to face whatever fears or limitations or blocks I had to meeting someone and also to making time and space for that in my life. But as I went on, and especially with online dating, I became very relaxed and free and open to meeting a lot of people. I had to learn to not take things personally and to just to let things be and let them flow. It definitely made me more confident and relaxed throughout the process.

Jodi: Tell me how you met Ivan.

Laura: I met Ivan on OkCupid.

Jodi: Did he start the chatting, or did you?

Laura: I did.

Jodi: What was it about his profile that sparked your interest?

Laura: When I was on online dating, often the profiles weren’t that interesting or the people didn’t seem very thoughtful to me. When I read his profile, it was clear he’d put a lot of time and effort into it. It was intelligent and reflective about life. He just sounded like an interesting person.

Jodi: That’s a lot to get from a profile. So, you contacted him. Then what happened?

Laura: With anybody that I met online, I always wanted to talk on the phone before I met them in person, just to get more of a feel for who they were and how we connected verbally as people. We had a really nice conversation and then we decided to meet in person.

Jodi: How were you feeling before the date?

Laura: I was looking forward to it. At the time, I was dating quite a few people. That was one of the suggestions I got out of one of the many dating books I read. I should date multiple people at the same time. And as hard and as difficult as that was, it was a very helpful suggestion because, again, it made me not take one person too seriously as I was getting to know him. Just let the situation be more relaxed. I was looking forward to our date, but I didn’t invest a lot of my energy into imagining what it would be like. I just knew he was a nice guy and I had enjoyed talking to him. I was looking forward to meeting him.

Jodi: Where did you meet him for the date?

Laura: I met him at a restaurant.

Jodi: When you arrived, did you spot him right away? Did he look like his photos?

Laura: He looked a bit older than his photo. Afterwards, I found out that he didn’t have that many photos. So that was part of it. He looked close enough to his photo, but he was definitely about five years older than the picture.

Jodi: Oh, okay.

Laura: A little grayer around the edges.

Jodi: I see. Did you call him out on that?

Laura: Not on the first date. Later on we talked about it.

Jodi: Please take me through the date.

Laura: It was really simple. We had drinks and dinner and sat and talked and got to know each other a bit better. We really enjoyed talking with each other, which is nice because many times I’d been on dates where that didn’t happen, where it was kind of this awkward process. But this time, we had a really nice conversation, enjoyed each other’s company, and learned about where we came from.

Jodi: How did the date end?

Laura: At the end of the date, he walked me to my car and that was it.

Jodi: So it was a pretty straightforward, very nice first date.

Laura: Yes.

Jodi: Did he contact you after the date?

Laura: He did. It was about a day later. I got a text. Then two days later he called me and we set up a second date.

Jodi: How long did the two of you go out together?

Laura: There wasn’t even a second date! We planned the second date for a week and a half later. We were going to go to a street festival. It was kind of a market fair-type street festival. In between that time, he found out he had to do some work. So, he cancelled our second date. I was very much in a place of not taking things personally.

I was like, “All right, he’s busy. I will make no story in my head about what that’s about. I will continue on and date other people and go to the festival.” So I went to the festival without him. And I met someone else!

Jodi: Good for you that you went out and lived your life and did what you planned! And you met somebody else!

Laura: Yes. That very day, someone else came up to me at the festival and started talking to me. We hit it off really well. Then I started dating him.

Jodi: So, no more Ivan?

Laura: No more Ivan. When Ivan called me back after the festival to set up our next date, I told him that I met someone else at the festival that he and I were supposed to go to and that I wasn’t interested in dating him anymore. So that was that.

Jodi: Goodbye Ivan. Hello someone else.

Laura: Yes.

Jodi: So how long did you date this other guy?

Laura: We ended up dating for about three and a half months. His name was Steven. We enjoyed each other’s company. But it was one of those situations where we hit it off really well at first, and then it began to fade.

Jodi: After Steven stopped seeing each other, sometimes relationships just…

Laura: It faded.

Jodi: Fade, as you said, did you think about Ivan again?

Laura: I did not. Again, I was in a place where I was meeting new people and going on dates and having fun. I was trying to be lighthearted about the whole process. I’d had other people online flake out on me. So I just moved on.

Jodi: He was just another one of those guys in the sea of men you were wading through.

Laura: Yes, very much.

Jodi: So, you got back in your boat and you went sailing along. Then what happened?

Laura: A year later I was sitting at work. I was at my desk flipping through my email. At the time, I was on Match.com. I got an email from Match.com that had a list of people they suggested I look at. So I flipped open the email.

Jodi: As one does.

Laura: Yes. I was looking through the people, flicking through the ones they suggested, and this guy came up. I was reading his profile and looking at his pictures and I thought, “Oh, he looks like somebody who’s fun.” Nice profile, nothing bad or extraordinary either way. I clicked on “Favorite” because I thought, “Well, I’m probably going to go back on Match.com at some point and I’ll look this guy up,” and that was that.

Then, about 20 minutes later, I received a text. It said, “Thanks for Favoriting my profile.” I had no idea who the text was from! It didn’t take very long for me to connect that it must have had something to do with what I had just done. But the email had 20 different profiles. I had no idea who was who, and I didn’t recognize any of the people in those profiles.

Jodi: So what did you do?

Laura: I texted him back and asked who it was. And in text communication, he laughed and he said, “Oh, this is Ivan. We haven’t talked in a while and I’d love to meet up with you.” We started texting and talking again, a year after our first date.

Jodi: You clicked on his photo, but you didn’t recognize him?

Laura: Not at all. As I mentioned, his photo on the first profile I had read on OkCupid, wasn’t quite true to how he looked. It wasn’t so off, but it was definitely younger than he actually was. That profile was very long and kind of written in this pro style that described his life.

His Match.com profile was kind of the opposite. It had new pictures and all the pictures were of him sailing, which I didn’t know that he did. I guess they looked more like him. But because a year had gone by, and I hadn’t really thought about him at all, I didn’t recognize him. And his profile was much shorter and sort of fun and lighthearted. They weren’t very similar.

Jodi: He recreated his approach to marketing who he is.

Laura: He totally did and he would say that. I talked to him about it. He said, “You know, I wasn’t attracting very many people with my first profile. So when I got on Match.com I sort of repackaged myself. I asked for some help from some girlfriends and put it together in a different way.”

Jodi: And yet you responded to both approaches, didn’t you?

Laura: I did. And for different reasons. The first one, because I thought he sounded like a very interesting smart person and the second one because he looked like a fun person. They were both him!

Jodi: That means you two went on a second first date!

Laura: We did! Because it’s been almost a year, we decided we were going to go to the same place as our first date, for our second first date.

Jodi: You were going to get to know each other again, starting at the same place physically, but at a different place in life.

Laura: I think we both thought it was sort of poetic to go to the same place we had the first time around. Then the story gets a little bit sillier. For our second first date, I was supposed to meet him at the bar restaurant. But I locked my keys in my car and I couldn’t get there!

Jodi: No way!

Laura: I was living in an apartment at the time. So I had to go find the apartment manager. He had to get me into my apartment so I could to get my spare keys to my car. But I couldn’t find him. And my cellphone was in my car!

I finally did get the extra keys, got in my car, grabbed my cellphone and texted him right away. But by this time, I was going to be an hour late and he was already there waiting for me.

Jodi: He was still waiting for you?

Laura: Yeah. And he continued to wait for me. He waited for an hour! He said at first he thought that, maybe, I was playing some strange trick on him. But I wasn’t. It was such a random occurrence. Then we met up and had our second first date. It was fun.

Jodi: When you eventually showed up, how were you feeling given everything that happened before you got there?

Laura: I was definitely rushed and a bit stressed. I felt badly because I really didn’t want to leave him sitting there. It was such a weird thing for me to lock my keys in my car and to have to go through all of that. But I’m glad I made it. I’m glad he waited. We had a great time.

Jodi: That’s outstanding! How did the date end?

Laura: So this time we sat and talked again. Both of us appreciated, perhaps even more than the first time, how easy it was for us to talk to each other and to have a really good conversation. We chatted and flirted and at the end of the date he walked me to my car. But this time he kissed me goodnight.

Jodi: Do you have memories of that kiss?

Laura: I do. It was a wonderful kiss.

Jodi: After the kiss, how were you feeling?

Laura: I was feeling good. You know, I still had the same mentality that I had throughout this process. “Well, let’s just see what happens and leave it open and not get caught in my mind, or got caught in planning or imagining something.” But I really enjoyed the date. I enjoyed him. He called me the next day and wanted to get together again. We started dating from there.

Jodi: No work obligation got in between you and he going out on your second date?

Laura: No. I think he probably learned from the first time around that he needed to be a little more proactive and get on that.

Jodi: What eventually happen with you and Ivan?

Laura: After that second first date we kept dating and spending time together and getting to know each other better. We eventually moved in together and eventually got married.

Jodi: Yay! So after all that you went through with Ivan, what did you learn?

Laura: I was very glad for the advice I’d read and received from people to relax around the whole dating thing and just let it flow in and let it flow out. Throughout that whole time, from the first time we went out on a date to the second first date, I didn’t get caught up in imagining, or trying to make up something that wasn’t there…either make up a story about what went wrong, or make up a story about what could’ve gone right. That was nice.

But also in that time, we had grown. We had matured as people. I think we could see each other better when we met again because we both had a year of dating in there.

Jodi: You’ve shared a lot of rich takeaways during our conversation. Is there any additional advice you have to share with our listeners?

Laura: I think the one piece of advice I would say is, don’t necessarily judge the book by its cover. Ivan is an attractive man, but we weren’t each other’s types. I think that’s part of what was the disconnect at the beginning. I wasn’t really his typical type and he wasn’t really my typical type. But we found each other attractive. It just didn’t have that click of, “Oh, that’s what I’m looking for!”

And what we really appreciated and even more so, when we met again was that, “You’re the kind of person I’m looking for and you’re attractive. You have the character and the qualities that I’m looking for and the values and the goals in life.” I also feel like the older I’ve gotten, the more important it has been to share the same values and sort of the same vision of where you want your life to go.

I’ve also seen my friends get married and divorced. Some of the conflicts that have come up for them are around getting older with someone. We’ve found that our values – what we want out of our lives – really matched up well.

Jodi: And that is essential if you’re going to go through life with someone, as you’ve said.

Laura: It is. It’s not something I would have put at the top of the list when I was younger. Also, we’re both dedicated to not only making our marriage work, and our relationship work, but are dedicated to growth because it goes up and down. We have a great relationship, but it’s still an effort to work on life together.

Jodi: Thank you for sharing the story of your first first date, and your second first date, with Ivan.

Laura: You’re very welcome.

The post Laura and Ivan appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Welcome, Denise. It’s a pleasure to have you as my guest on the podcast this episode.

Denise: I am thrilled to be here. Thank you for the invitation.

Jodi: Thank you so much for coming on to share your dating experience, specifically your first date experience, that you had after you returned to the dating world following the passing of your husband. I know that we have listeners who, sadly, are in the same place that you were. I am sure that your story is going to be very meaningful to them. I’d like to start off, as we do each episode, with our guest, this time being you of course, sharing a bit about yourself.

Denise: Great. Thank you. So as you mentioned, I am a widow. I’m 46. My husband died a little over five years ago. Sadly, he died by suicide. He struggled with depression for many, many years. It was a shocking loss. It was a very traumatic loss. It took me quite a while to start to recover and quietly frankly I cried on my couch every day for a year. Then I suddenly started to come out of that fog.

Our son was 7 at that time. He’s 12 today. I’m thankful to say he’s doing really, really well. From a personal perspective, professionally I’m a writer. I own my own business. This is my 14th year in business and I love what I do. I’m a bit of a crazy cat lady. I have a few cats and love my home and my community. It’s just that, in many ways, we’ve had a difficult journey. I feel very grateful for the life that I have today.

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Jodi: I am really moved by your story and that you ultimately found the bravery within yourself to come from out of such a dark place, and such a tragic circumstance, so that you could continue on with your son. I’m so glad to hear he’s doing well and that you are too.

Denise: It honestly took a good three years for the sun to shine again for me. I’ve done a lot of work, but I know that my husband would want me to be happy. I have a unique appreciation that life is short and it’s meant to be appreciated and enjoyed. So I thank him for teaching me that lesson.

Jodi: He gave you that gift.

Denise: Yes, he did.

Jodi: Out of such tragedy came that gift. Once you came out of that fog, you got yourself back into the dating world. How long after his passing did you ultimately decide to step out and get to the right headspace, the right mind space, to start meeting people?

Denise: You know, it’s a big decision and it’s different for every widow. I know some who never want to date again. I know others who dated within the first year. I don’t think there’s any right or wrong. It’s really what is right for you. For me it took about three and a half years to decide that I was finally ready. I had to do a lot of healing. I felt like I needed to be in a good place in order to be able to be with somebody new. So I really took the time I needed to, like you said, get in the right headspace for that.

Jodi: That’s understandable. And bravo for getting there! As you said, some people don’t heal, and others just decide they want to go forward solo, which is totally admirable, and if that’s right for them, then that’s what they should do. But in your case, you took a big step forward to say “I want to be in a relationship again.” How did you do it? What was the first step you took?

Denise: Well, I got online. I signed up with a couple of the different online dating programs like Match.com and eHarmony. I chose those primarily because I had to pay for them. My philosophy was that if other people were paying too, maybe they would be better candidates than people on some of the free sites. That’s how the whole thing started. I didn’t realize that there were free people on it, at least on Match.com.

Jodi: How did you and the guy we’re going to talk about find one another and on which dating platform? You mentioned a few platforms.

Denise: So Match.com. We are one of the success stories! That’s how we made the connection. I set out to date as a younger widow — I mean not young in my 40s, but a younger widow. I was warned by some fellow widows that that can actually scare some men off, the fact that you’re a widow. And so I thought, “You know what? I’m going to deal with this head on and build some humor around it.” So in my little written profile on Match, I had the perks of dating a widow.

Jodi: You did?

Denise: I did.

Jodi: Oh my goodness! (Laughter)

Denise: And I had things like “there’s no drama with the ex” and “I’ve got lots of free time.” It was just this silly list of five or six things. I think that that really helped make my case and also show some humor so that I didn’t look like everyone else that was on there.

Jodi: What a healthy approach! It must have lowered the concern that guys perhaps had when they started to read your profile. They saw humor there and learned a lot about you through that humor.

Denise: I wanted to be clear about what I was looking for and not looking for. I wanted to really convey that in the profile and filter people out as much as possible. So I was very honest in my profile, as much as I could be without it being five pages long, right? You don’t want to do that either. But I tried to keep it as real as possible. “I’m looking for fun. I’m not looking for somebody with a ton of baggage. If you’re in recovery, good for you, but that’s not a match for me.” I’ve had this long tendency to love wounded birds in my romantic life, in my friendships, and I thought “I don’t want a wounded bird, I want somebody who’s altogether”. So all of that had to get conveyed in that profile to kind of whittle down the dating pool, so to speak.

Jodi: Well, good thing you’re a professional writer! (Laughter)

Denise: That does help! It does help.

Jodi: Yes. It must have and you got responses, clearly.

Denise: I did. I had a lot of responses, in fact. For the first three months of being on both of those sites, I went out with seven different people. I felt that was a pretty good number considering how I really wasn’t on there for very long. And I feel like I’m pretty picky. I wasn’t saying yes to everyone. I’ll tell you that.

Jodi: That must have felt good that you were getting responses and you were getting out and meeting people who were contacting you first.

Denise: Yeah. I wasn’t aggressive about it. I’ll definitely say that. I waited until somebody else made a move, or maybe I would “like” their profile, and then wait and see if they contacted me. Then I had lots and lots of questions to screen before I ever agreed to meet anybody.

Jodi: How many years had it been since you had last been out there dating?

Denise: Oh my gosh! I was with my husband for 12 years and then he’d been gone for three and a half years. So it had been like 16, 17 years since I’ve been on a first date. You know, the other thing about that was that so many people had said, “Oh, internet dating, it’s awful. You’re going to hate it.”

I decided I was going to make my own decision about the experience. I actually really enjoyed the experience. I thought it was a lot of fun. It took me back to my 20s, because I hadn’t dated since my 20s. It’s different, as you’re in a more mature place in your life. I also felt like I brought more wisdom to the dating scene. So I found the whole process to be really more fun than stressful.

Jodi: That’s fantastic. It’s all what you make of things, right?

Denise: Right.

Jodi: If you go in with the attitude that it’s going to be awful, and you’re reluctant to do it, then it’s more likely going to be a nightmare.

Denise: Right.

Jodi: But if you go in thinking, “Hey, I’m just going to give it a shot. I’m going to be me and I’m going to go into this hopeful and with a smile on my face.” When you approach it that way you often get a very different experience and you clearly got a positive result. So who is it that we are going to talk about today that you met on Match?

Denise: Brad. He was date number 6 of 7.

Jodi: Did he contact you? What did you think when you read his profile?

Denise: His profile made me laugh and I love that. I literally laughed out loud. He had made fun of himself about camping in a camper and not being an animal, or something to that effect, and I just thought, “Oh my gosh! He has a sense of humor!” That’s great and plus he was pretty cute too. So I was immediately intrigued.

Jodi: And so you replied. What happened next?

Denise: I like to chat first, so we scheduled a phone call. I had said I would call him. It was a Saturday night and I was leaving a birthday party two hours away from my home. o I called him from the car, hands-free of course. He proceeded to talk the entire drive home! We were on the phone, I think, for a good two and a half hours, which is a good sign, right?

Jodi: It’s a very good sign! Wow! That is a lot of talking for a first conversation.

Denise: I will say, he did most of the talking.

Jodi: That often happens.

Denise: It does. Very common on these internet dates. Men get nervous, I think, and then they don’t know how to have the back and forth and ask you as many questions as you’re asking them. I had already noticed this trend on my other internet dates, so I kind of let it go. I just chose to focus on the fact that he was charming and he was very funny.

Jodi: Did he ask you out at the end of your very long conversation?

Denise: He did. He asked if I would like to meet for coffee the following the week. I agreed to do that. At the time he was working in the late afternoon, so we met for a late morning coffee on a Thursday.

Jodi: Casual coffee on a Thursday!

Denise: I love coffee dates because if they’re miserable you can leave. I had one date that lasted 45 minutes because I was so bored. I always tended to choose coffee. I’m not a big drinker either. We met at a great local coffee shop. It was a perfect choice.

Jodi: Did Brad get there first, or did you arrive first?

Denise: I was there first because I’m a very early person. I was pretty nervous, so I went in and decided to order my coffee and avoid the whole awkwardness of who’s going to pay. I sat at table in the corner that was a little bit hidden from the front door so that I could see him come in. But he couldn’t quite make me out because there were already quite a few people in there.

Jodi: What was your reasoning? Did you sit there because, if you didn’t like what you saw, you were going to exit out the side door?

Denise: No. I would never do that.

Jodi: I didn’t think so. Share with us what your rationale was for tucking yourself away in the corner.

Denise: I think I wanted to just take a breath before I stood up and greeted him. I was there early. I was nervous, even though I’ve been on a number of dates prior to that one. I was still nervous on every date. I just wanted that chance to kind of be ready to greet him.

Jodi: What happened next?

Denise: I saw him come in and I mustered up my courage when I saw him standing there looking around. I came out of my little cubbyhole and he got this big smile on his face when I came walking over. He said, “I’m really nervous.” He said, “Are you nervous?” And I said, “Yeah, I’m nervous too.”

Then he smiled and he gave me this big hug. All my nerves melted away because we both addressed that we were nervous. Also, the hug made me feel like, “Okay, this is all going to be fine.” Some people might feel awkward being hugged so soon. But for me, it was just a really friendly gesture and it calmed the whole situation down.

Jodi: I have heard about a lot of first dates, I’ve gone on a lot of first dates, I have never heard of a first date where a guy walks up and says, “I’m really nervous.” I think that’s amazing! I understand why all your nervousness went away. It’s just so human. It’s such an amazing way to connect at the first moment, that first hello. He obviously respected you from the start to say that to you.

Denise: Yeah. Part of what I really like about him is how authentic he is. That’s a huge value that I have with people in general. I like to connect with people at a real, authentic level. He immediately showed that to me and that really scored some serious points for him.

Jodi: I understand why. After that, what happened between you and Brad?

Denise: He offered to buy me a coffee and I said, “I’ve already got one at the table.” So, he ordered a coffee and we went and sat down. That little corner spot worked out great because it ended up feeling really private in a very busy café. We had our little corner and he proceeded to talk, and talk, and talk, and talk, and talk a lot. A lot!

Jodi: Got it! What did you do as he was talking and talking?

Denise: I was kind of snickering because what I had figured out at this point in my online dating expertise of three whole months was that he was nervous and it meant he liked me, right? If they’re “over-talking” and they’re a little bit excited, it means they like you. If you view it from that perspective, it’s kind of sweet. So I just chalked it up to….he’s nervous, he’s interested, he’s saying a lot of interesting things. I enjoyed the conversation. He had me laughing quite a bit. I felt really comfortable with him and I also just had this suspicion that he would eventually not talk quite as much.

Jodi: Did he eventually just pause and let you take part in the conversation?

Denise: He did. Eventually, he became a good listener. But he definitely is an over-talker by nature. And that’s okay. I’ve come to accept it. It’s all good. But he’s also a very good listener.

Jodi: How did the date end?

Denise: Well, we were there for three and a half hours! I hadn’t had a single date last that long. It was incredible! It turned out we had a lot of similar musical tastes and like the same movies. We had a lot of fun things in common. He’s a very creative person. So, he had to leave for work. Had he not had to leave for work, we probably would have kept going. He walked me out to my car and said, “I’d really like to take you to dinner this weekend. Are you available?” And I said, “I am, I would love to do that.” We exchanged a big hug and he gave me this cute little smile as he walked away. It was adorable and I felt like a giddy teenager.

Jodi: That’s wonderful! You spent six hours talking to a guy who you did not know. But after six hours you knew him very well.

Denise: Yeah. And that’s a good thing. Look, I’d rather know too much than not enough, right?

Jodi: Right. Exactly. Share with me, and with the listeners the rest of the story please.

Denise: The funny part is that the day after I met with Brad, I had another date scheduled with somebody else. I didn’t tell Brad that. I went on this other date, but I almost canceled it. I thought, “I really like Brad, but I’d already scheduled it with this other guy.” And I thought, “Well, I’ll never know. I should at least go and give this other guy a chance.” So I did. I showed up.

He was the 45-minute date! He was boring. I could barely see straight. Nice man, just, he had no interests, no zest for life, no anything, I missed my over talker! So I let that go and Brad and I quickly became an item. In fact, I think it was on our third date that he whipped out his phone and said, “I’m shutting off my Match.com profile.” And I was like, “You’re kidding me. You’re doing this here in front of me?” He said, “Yeah. It’d be nice if you shut yours down too, but if you don’t want to, you don’t have to.”

Jodi: Oh gosh! He puts you on a spot there, didn’t he?

Denise: He put me on the spot.

Jodi: How did you respond?

Denise: I pulled out my phone.

Jodi: Okay!

Denise: We had this wonderful connection from the get-go. It’s been a year and a half and we’re still together. He’s a wonderful man. We’re not living together. This question comes up a lot. I am not ready to share my space yet. But we’re very, very happy. He doesn’t have children of his own, but he is so great with my 12-year-old son. They have this wonderful humorous relationship. We laugh a lot. It was funny. Last week I introduced him to a friend he hadn’t met yet and my friend said, “You’re the sunshine-bringer-backer!”

Jodi: Oh, wow!

Denise: Because I have been much happier than I have been in years. After such a traumatic difficult time, to have this lighthearted happy person in my life on a daily basis has just been wonderful.

Jodi: I hear the joy in your voice. I hear the happiness. I hear the energy and certainly a lot of zest for life. I am elated for you, I’m elated for Brad, and I’m elated for your son.

Denise: Thank you.

Jodi: Before we close out, I would love it if you would share any dating learnings that you have from your three months of dating.

Denise: When I went into this online dating thing, I kind of flashed back to my 20s. I dated a lot in my 20s. I was very picky. I went on a lot of first dates. What I reminded myself when I returned to dating was that it’s not about if he likes me, it’s about if I like him. I think that changes the dynamic when you’re internet dating. I think a lot of people go on dates all worried about the other person when you really should be focused on how you’re feeling about the date.

The other piece of advice is to lead with your head, not your heart. I think this is a tricky one for some of us women because we tend to be heart-based. I got this advice from my therapist. She said, “When you go on these dates, you want look for red flags. You want to go in with your little check list of your “musts” and your “deal breakers.” You want to figure those things out before you let your heart get invested. I think that’s really powerful advice. We all have girlfriends who are also dating. I just had a conversation with another girlfriend who’s all heart. Unfortunately, in her dating life that leads to a lot of disastrous situations because she’s not seeing through a clear lenses before she dives in.

That is the greatest lesson in dating; to go out with clear intentions of what matters to you and what is the deal breaker. Look for those things before you allow yourself to really fall hard.

Jodi: This has been a treat. So thank you, Denise, for being with us on this episode. I wish you all the best.

Denise: Thank you so much, Jodi. This was really fun. Thank you.

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The post Denise and Brad appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Hello Tabatha! Thank you for being with me today.

Tabatha: Thank you for inviting me.

Jodi: Let’s hear about you first before we hear about Richard.

Tabatha: I’m 53. I worked for over 30 years doing billing, bookkeeping. I decided to take a break and do a little house cleaning. So that’s my current profession. I have two daughters. One is 23 and one is 31. I have two grandkids, both born in the same year. One is 14 months old and one is 3 months old and they all keep me busy.

Jodi: You have a lot of little ones around you, don’t you?

Tabatha: Yes, I do.

Jodi: Are you divorced?

Tabatha: Yes. I’ve been divorced since 1998.

Jodi: Have you been dating for most of those years?

Tabatha: I have. I’ve had a couple of long-term relationships, but for the most part just short dating.

Jodi: This date we’re going to talk about with Richard. How did you and Richard meet?

Tabatha: We met through a mutual friend.

Jodi: Ah!

Tabatha: I used to work at U-Haul back in the ’80s and I’ve kept in contact with one of the repair managers. I see him all the time because I always have maintenance issues with my car. So he asked me, was I dating and I said, “No, not right now.” He said, “I have the perfect guy for you.”

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Jodi: Wow! That was very considerate of him.

Tabatha: He asked me if he can give him my number. And I thought, “Okay, you can give him my number.” So for about a month, Richard and I played phone tag. We never spoke with each other. We left voicemail messages, but we never connected. And then one Saturday we got in contact and we talked for about eight hours.

Jodi: What? Eight hours?

Tabatha: Eight hours on the phone!

Jodi: Oh my goodness!

Tabatha: Yes.

Jodi: You went through your day, did all your activities talking to him? Or you just stayed home?

Tabatha: He was off that day and I happened to be off the same day. So we just spent the whole day getting to know each other over the phone, eight hours.

Jodi: That’s incredible. Were you sitting on the couch for those eight hours?

Tabatha: I laid down. I ate. I went to the bathroom a few times.

Jodi: Not with him on the phone. (Laughter)

Tabatha: No. I muted him out a few times and we just enjoyed each other’s company over the phone.

Jodi: What was it about him that you immediately responded to?

Tabatha: Well, just the communication, listening, telling stories, laughing. We did all of that over the phone. We got to know each other over the phone in one day.

Jodi: That’s amazing!

Tabatha: It is.

Jodi: Did he ask you out at the end of this marathon conversation?

Tabatha: Yes, he did. I asked him if it would be okay if I cooked something for him. I hadn’t cooked for a man in almost 20 something years. So I wanted to do something different. So I baked some chicken wings, I made mac and cheese and I roasted some Brussels Sprouts.

Jodi: How did you come up with that menu?

Tabatha: I wanted to do something that was simple and kind of finger food and something tasty that is my favorite.

Jodi: Did you invite him to come to your place or did you two meeting somewhere else?

Tabatha: I decided to pack a picnic and I was thinking of somewhere in between where we both lived and there was a lake in the middle of where we live.

Jodi: Perfect!

Tabatha: So he came and picked me up, perfect gentleman, opened the door and we headed to the lake which was about a mile and a half away from my house.

Jodi: After the marathon conversation, you did some emailing and exchanged photos?

Tabatha: We did some texting and we exchanged photos. I got a chance to see what he looked like – a very handsome gentleman.

Jodi: He actually sent you a photo of how he looked at the time?

Tabatha: Yes. And I actually sent an older photo.

Jodi: You didn’t!

Tabatha: I did.

Jodi: Why did you do that?

Tabatha: Because I didn’t have anything current, so I sent something that might have been about six months ago. It wasn’t too old. I still look the same.

Jodi: Okay. He opens the door for you, you get in the car and drive off.

Tabatha: Yes. We headed to the lake. We found parking. I have packed the picnic, so we located a spot. I didn’t want to sit on the grass because the grass looked a little dirty, so we found a bench. It was right on the curve of where the lake where people can walk around the lake. I laid out our food. It was still a little steamy hot.

Jodi: You had just made it?

Tabatha: I just made it right before he got there. I had plates for us. I had cups. I had water bottles. So I laid out our picnic on the bench. We sat there. At least 50 people that walked by and could not believe we were sitting there having that homemade meal at the lake. It was so wonderful. We had a really good time.

Jodi: Were people commenting as they went by? What were they saying?

Tabatha: Yes. They were like, “Can I have some? That looks really good! You guys are enjoying.” This was our first meeting and we just laughed and enjoyed the food. It was so wonderful.

Jodi: What happened next?

Tabatha: He dropped me back at home and then from that day we texted and called each other every day. I thought, “Okay, I’ve met the perfect guy.” About a week later, he invited me to go to a wedding with him. I hadn’t been to a wedding with a gentleman in, I don’t know how long. He wanted to buy the outfit that I was going to wear. I thought that was a little strange. He bought five different outfits and the outfits that he bought weren’t for my body frame!

Jodi: Did you tell him what size you were?

Tabatha: Yes. I told him that I was a large or a 12, anything bigger is fine but nothing smaller than a large. When he brought these outfits to me they were mediums and smalls. A couple of the outfits, my daughter whose size it was, couldn’t fit!

Jodi: You’re kidding! (Laughter)

Tabatha: I don’t know if he couldn’t read the text or if he wanted me to squeeze in something that was not appropriate for my size.

Jodi: Did you really think it was his eyesight?

Tabatha: I don’t know. Like I said, it just totally got weird when he decided he wanted to pick out the outfit for me. One was like a spandex outfit, white.

Jodi: Oh my goodness! (Laughter)

Tabatha: I couldn’t believe it! So, I told him, “Let me pick out my own outfit for the wedding.” And so he’s out shopping, he’s at a boutique right around the corner from where I live and he says, “I see this perfect outfit for you. Do you mind stopping by here and trying it on?” I stopped by and it was another outfit that wasn’t appropriate for my age or my body type.

Jodi: What did you say to him?

Tabatha: I said, “No, I can’t wear that!” I said, “I’ll just wear a black dress, something plain.”

Jodi: He was basically obsessed with this.

Tabatha: Yes, with dressing me.

Jodi: With dressing you. When he saw you in that black dress, how did he respond?

Tabatha: He just said it’s beautiful.

Jodi: He was respectful?

Tabatha: Yes, very respectful.

Jodi: How was the wedding?

Tabatha: The wedding was really nice. It was also close to the lake where we had our first date, but in a boathouse. The hall that they were married in is also where they had the reception. It was really pretty.

Jodi: What else happened between the two of you after you went to the wedding together?

Tabatha: Afterwards, he turned into a kind of like control freak. He wanted me to text him in the morning when I got up, text him when I got home, text him in between cleaning jobs. He really wanted to make sure he knew where I was at all times. That just totally weirded me out.

Jodi: Understandably. Did you do all of that?

Tabatha: I did because I’m starting a new relationship with somebody. I’m not accustomed to letting some know where I’m at all the time. I’ve been single for a long time. So I said, “Okay. Well, I’ll do a little something different.” But it got completely out of control.

Jodi: Then what happened between the two of you?

Tabatha: Well, I didn’t know that he was religious. Every time that we spoke he would always want to pray and he’s Baptist. They do a lot of praying. It was just like an obsession of praying that everything worked out with us.

Jodi: Oh, that’s what he was praying about?

Tabatha: Yes.

Jodi: He wanted the two of you to pray for your relationship, the success of your relationship?

Tabatha: Yes. And that was odd to me.

Jodi: Interesting. Yeah.

Tabatha: I never had that done. So it got kind of weird after that. If he couldn’t reach me during the day, then I will get a long scripture and the scripture would cover up the whole frame of my phone. It would be so long!

Jodi: Did you respond to those?

Tabatha: How do you respond to that? And I don’t go to church.

Jodi: Right.

Tabatha: So it got kind of weird.

Jodi: Yeah. I can understand.

Tabatha: I told him, “We need to talk.” I headed over to his house and he wanted to tell me about his past relationship or marriage, and then he started showing me pictures of all the text messages from his ex-wife that he had taken pictures of.

Jodi: Huh?

Tabatha: Exactly! He had snapped, screenshotted, the text messages and then had printed them out. He had a binder full of all these text messages!

Jodi: He had a binder of messages that were texted to him? (Laughter)

Tabatha: Yes!

Jodi: How did he explain this to you?

Tabatha: Well, he said the reason was someone had sent him a CD from his ex-wife and it had pictures of her with other people and then he started going through her phone and then he goes on and on and on about this ex-wife. Then he showed me a picture. I looked like her!

Jodi: You looked like her? That’s what this was about! He wanted to dress you in her clothing.

Tabatha: Yes.

Jodi: That is creepy.

Tabatha: Very creepy.

Jodi: Did you see any signs of this after your first date, or while you were at the wedding?

Tabatha: No. Not at all. Just like I said, a really nice guy, perfect gentleman, you know get the door, pay for everything. He was just a really, really nice guy, but just wanted to be in control. And the scriptures. I mean, I looked at scriptures in the morning, I would get them in the afternoon. I would get them in the evening. It was a little overwhelming!

Jodi: Oh my goodness! Tabatha, what did you do? What did you say?

Tabatha: I said, “I’m going to have to call the mutual friend and see if I can find out a little bit more information on him.” And so I called him and he said, “Yes, he had a really bad breakup and divorce with the ex-wife. She had cheated on him.” And so him sending me scriptures and keeping up with me every day was just to make sure that it didn’t happen to him again. That was the end of the relationship.

Jodi: How did you end it with him?

Tabatha: I texted him and told him that we needed to talk. We set up a time to talk on the phone. I told him that we were going to have to go our separate ways, that he’s really religious and I’m not, and I don’t want to take it any further. I didn’t want to tell him that I was creeped out. I just wanted to see what his response would be. And then all of a sudden, he was like, “Come get all your things from my house!”

Jodi: Your things from his house?

Tabatha: Right.

Jodi: What things had you left?

Tabatha: I had left a pair of shoes and probably a little overnight bag. He wanted me to come get them immediately.

Jodi: Did you?

Tabatha: I did. When I got there, he had an entourage of guys at his house, people I’ve never met or never even heard of…like he was going to need these people to protect him from me.

Jodi: Were these men standing outside his house?

Tabatha: They were inside the house. But when I called to tell him I was there, they came out with him, like they were his bodyguards.

Jodi: Oh my goodness!

Tabatha: It just got creepy.

Jodi: This is just so over the top!

Tabatha: Yes. Later I found out that the ex-wife had jumped on him. So he was frightened that I was going to do the same to him!

Jodi: He thought that you were going to tackle him?

Tabatha: Yes. It was completely weird.

Jodi: What did the guys with him say? Were they apologetic?

Tabatha: They didn’t say anything. Once I told him I was outside, I told him just bring my things to the car. He brought them in and he was like, “You know, I really care about you and that’s it. I wish you the best.” And I drove off.

Jodi: Did you ever hear from him again?

Tabatha: Never. I never heard from him again. And so our mutual friend is also religious. He’s a deacon in the church. He kept asking me, “Has Richard checked on you since you guys broke up?” I said “no, not once.”

Jodi: Tell me, what did you learn from this saga, because it was a saga?

Tabatha: You really need to find out how the last situation ended for someone. The mutual friend, he said his wife had told him not to fix me up with Richard after the fact. She kept telling her husband, “Don’t connect those two. That’s a girl that you’ve been friends with for a long time, really nice girl. Don’t fix him up with her.”

Jodi: So maybe another lesson is, if a man is setting you up, ask him what the woman in his life thinks of it?

Tabatha: Oh, yes.

Jodi: What do you think? Is that something you’d suggest?

Tabatha: I definitely would. I have known the wife all the years that I’ve known him. I should have reached out to her just to get her opinion and then I probably could have avoided all of that craziness.

Jodi: That was a lot of craziness. It didn’t stop you from continuing in the dating world, did it?

Tabatha: No, it did not. It just made me a little bit more curious about men’s previous relationships. I don’t normally ask about previous ones because we’re working on what’s current. I think men handle breakups and situations a little different than we women do.

Jodi: Well, Tabatha, thank you for sharing that tale. I’m so glad that it ended up in such a way that you were fine and safe and able to just move on with your life. And you have!

Tabatha: Yes, I have.

Jodi: So bravo! Thank you for being on the podcast.

Tabatha: You’re very welcome.

The post Tabatha and Richard appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Welcome! Thanks for tuning in to this special episode of the podcast. It’s a treat to have Sarika Jain as my guest on the show and to talk with her about finding joy while dating. What an important topic. After all, who doesn’t want joy in their lives?

In an ideal world, the entire dating experience would be fun, exciting and joy-filled. But that’s probably not how you, and how most people, would describe their dating lives at all times. It certainly wasn’t how I felt about mine 24/7. Instead, given all the time it can suck up when you’re doing online dating and dating apps, dating can feel like a second job.

And we all know that dating can be filled with emotional highs and lows that those lows can drag us down. Even so, dating doesn’t have to be approached as a chore and it doesn’t have to drag you down. It can be approached joyfully and Sarika is going to help us figure out how.

But first, a little about Sarika. Sarika Jain is a leader in love strategy and transformational coaching, and is the creator of the Sacred Soulmate System. She’s been called a “Relationship Sorceress”. Over the last 10 years, Sarika has dedicated her professional life to helping savvy and successful women heal their relationship with their inner selves so they can get on the path to finding love that lasts.

Her unique approach encompasses everything from uncovering relationship patterns, to practicing yoga, all with the goal of inspiring women to live the lives they’ve dreamed about – the lives they deserve! Sarika can reach women like no one else because she has been where they are – where you are. After experiencing the ups and downs of dating in NYC for years, and even a broken engagement, she began a journey of healing and self-love. She met her husband soon after.

I am honored that Sarika is a First Date Stories’ featured contributor. You can find Sarika’s articles on a wide range of meaningful topics at FirstDateStories.com. They cover such subjects as Four Reasons You Attract Unavailable Men and How to Deal with Negative Thinking When You’re Single. Welcome, Sarika! Thanks for coming on the show.

Sarika: Thank you so much for having me, Jodi. It is such a pleasure and an honor.

Jodi: Let’s just dive in. I’m always curious about the professional and personal course that people’s lives take that lead them to becoming either a relationship or a love coach. What’s your story?

Sarika: Well, I became a relationship coach because that was the area that I struggled the most in, and the one that I was the most interested in. Around 10 years ago, I started coaching women as a side hustle of my day job in the area of love. I just had this idea that if we have a positive mindset, if we’re very strategic, if we’re consistent in our actions, then we can create the relationship that we want. We can date in a healthy way and meet the man of our dreams.

I was single at that time, but I was also just very optimistic about finding love. But I will say that I had somewhat of a Type A framework, the way I was looking at it. I was like, “Okay, if I go on five dates a week, of which two turned out to be second dates, of which one turned out to be a third date….” I was just very like numbers-oriented. It did almost feel like a second job. Yeah, looking back, there was no joy in it. There was a lot of hope. But also, I realized that some of my dating patterns were fear-based.

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Jodi: I can understand. Fear creeps into the dating sphere for everybody who’s out in the dating world making themselves vulnerable in the way that dating requires you to be.

Sarika: Yeah, exactly. It’s vulnerable. I was in my late 20s, early 30s, and there was a lot of pressure for me to meet someone. My biological clock was ticking. Deep down – now I realize this but then I didn’t – but deep down I had shame. I had guilt. I had fear of being unworthy. I had some underlying issues that I hadn’t really resolved. So I was dating from a place of scarcity and also just being very ambitious and driven about it.

When I got engaged to a wonderful man and he broke up with me after our engagement, I had a wake-up call. It was almost as if I just wanted to end my life. I was just like, “I’m just done. I’m done with this whole dating thing. I’ve gone on a hundred first dates. I’ve dated so many men. I’ve had my heart broken so many times.”

I just seemed to be attracting the same patterns over and over and I was just sick of it. Just done. As I was crying in my sheets, a voice came from my heart that said I needed spiritual healing. Being in the corporate world, I had no idea what that meant. But the very next day, I encountered a spiritual coach. She told me that I was blocked, that my heart was blocked, that my sacral chakra was blocked, and that I was almost like a magnet for heartbreak because of my toxic thinking.

I had no idea that that was the case because I was always this happy-go-lucky go-getter optimistic girl. I didn’t realize that I was carrying a load inside of me and trying to meet other people’s expectations, trying to live a life based on the life that I saw my friends and peers having. I somehow just always wanted to meet expectations of others. I didn’t realize that. In doing that, I was settling in the process.

As I was kind of having this revelation, I went through a process of deep personal transformation. It was in that transformation, as I was facing my grief, my despair, my devastation after that breakup and watching my life kind of just fall apart, my expectations fall apart, that something started opening and lifting inside of me.

I began meditation. I began yoga. I began exploring self-love and healing practices and I began to have a deeper understanding of where my patterns were coming from. Just that awareness and learning about what love is, what joy is, what presence is, all of it instilled this level of joy in me that I’d never felt before.

It was in that process that I began to start going out and having fun, having a sense of freedom within me, going to events that I’ve never been to before, kind of like dating myself, learning like what turns me on, what gives me pleasure and sort of exploring other aspects of myself that I’d kind of hidden in a box because I was trying to be this perfect girl, this perfect woman.

In that process of self-discovery and healing, I began to attract men everywhere. I’d go to an event and a really awesome guy would ask me out. He was definitely much better than the guys I was attracting before. In that process I met my husband in a meditation circle. I do think he was very attracted to this joy that I was emanating. That was so pivotal for me in terms of how I wanted to live my life. That was a word that connected us both, the word “Joy”.

Jodi: Joy is such a powerful concept. What do you mean when you describe joy? What is your definition of joy?

Sarika: I think my definition of joy is being turned on, being turned on by myself, my life. Being grateful, finding joy in other people’s happiness. In Buddhism they call it “Sympathetic Joy,” where you’re truly happy for someone else and their happiness. It’s a state of being. It’s one of presence and a sort of a freedom; a freedom from heavy thoughts, heavy feelings. I would say joy is just this, it’s a state of being in which you feel connected.

Jodi: Were you cognizant of how you felt at this stage walking into those events, going into those rooms in comparison to how you felt before you had this self-healing experience?

Sarika: I was conscious of it. I did feel the sense of freedom within me. I’m like, “Oh, wow! Maybe I don’t need to meet a partner to be happy.” I mean, it would be lovely to meet my soul mate. But I didn’t have that sense of urgency anymore. I was willing to be more playful. So, I think having that playful attitude really did help me. I was cognizant that I wasn’t taking everything as seriously as I did before.

Jodi: Would you say that you, through this process, fell in love with the true you, the real you?

Sarika: Yeah, that’s exactly it. I was falling in love with the real me. I was falling in love with life. It was almost like an enchantment.

Jodi: You spoke about you and your husband meeting around joy, that it was at the center of what attracted the two of you. Can you speak a little bit more about that? And also why joy is so important while dating?

Sarika: Yeah. I don’t know what it is about that word, and the Sanskrit word is “Mudita.” We were both like, “Mudita, that’s it!” I think we’ve grown up in heavy cultures. We’re both Indian. There’s a lot of expectations on people, on young people, on men, on women. We just never thought that you could lead a life that was in the present moment, one that was about like holding space for each other and self-awareness and joy; that life could be enjoyed through the simple pleasures. And we both really loved exploring that while we were dating each other.

The irony is that we weren’t dating the first time we met. We got to know each other. We became friends and he started to let me know that he was interested. And of course, I was a little weary. I was dating other men. I was afraid of commitment, but I was still trying to be present and joyful with anyone that I was hanging out with.

It wasn’t even just about him. It was about how I wanted to approach life and the people that I interacted with. I think that sense of goodwill and generosity and presence and kindness, it became a basis in our relationship. Those core values are what resonated for both of us and joy was that for us. Joy was one of them for us.

After going through my own process of being a dating coach, finding love within my life, having my heart broken and then learning how to find love and joy within myself and then meeting my soulmate, I realized that I had something special to offer to women. It was about integrating all these experiences and creating a process for women to date and attract love in a conscious, joyful way. That’s what I currently offer as a love and relationship coach.

Jodi: When women are out in the dating world, they’re not always feeling joyful. There are roadblocks when you’re single and dating. Can you speak to what some of those roadblocks are and how women can take action to find that joy within and with the person they’re dating?

Sarika: Absolutely! That’s a great question. I mean, let’s be honest, right? When you’re single, there are fears of being unworthy, or fears of scarcity, or not having the love that you’ve always been dreaming about, because let’s face it all of us have dreamt about having romantic, lifelong partnerships. Most women I meet dream about that. When we don’t have it, we don’t have the experience of it, when we’ve gone through heartbreak after heartbreak, or the reality is the biological clock is ticking, it can create a sense of scarcity. It can create fears like, “What if I end up alone?” This is probably the number one fear that women have. And then the sense of guilt, the shame that dating can bring.

Many women that I coach are ethnic in background. Or even if they’re non-ethnic, they’re still concerned about the same things. “My parents want to see me find someone.” “My mom calls me all the time and asks “When are you going to meet someone?”

The expectations can feel really heavy for women. And finally, I think the big elephant in the room is, if a woman wants to have her own child, biological child, when she reaches the ages of 30s or 40s, she is looking for Mr. Right and the realization of that dream can seem further and further away. All of these create a lack of joy while dating. It can make dating feel like a chore, or something we have to do.

Jodi: Based on what you said about overcoming fear – the fear of being alone is one of the ways to find the joy within. It helps you find who you are, and be at peace with who you are. It helps you cultivate joy from within. Doesn’t it?

Sarika: So in my case, it was my fears becoming true that help me on that path. I was finally facing the reality that, even though my worst nightmare came true, which is I was single after a broken engagement, and I went through the process of grieving and sort of self-discovery, that is when I actually started to see joy glimmer, showing its light in my life.

In a way, you’re right; facing our fears can be the path to joy. But I would say it’s not easy to do that. If a woman is doing this alone without any support, the fears can become overwhelming.

Jodi: I understand. Yes.

Sarika: Yeah.

Jodi: This is not easy stuff.

Sarika: This is not easy stuff and it actually is all related to childhood wounds. Our wounds from past relationships that add up and just keep… it’s almost like a trauma that’s built up in the body. It’s not a conscious thing, or an analytical thing. It’s body-based trauma that gets stored up. That’s unfortunately what most of us have when we’re out there and dating.

Jodi: So what are the keys to finding joy while you’re dating, and to becoming a more joyful dater?

Sarika: Great question! Well, I have five keys to enjoying the dating process and to becoming a joyful dater. The first one is presence. Being in the present moment. It’s the hardest skill to cultivate, by the way. I remember I was always stuck between the past and the future and always thinking about my future. When I would go on a date, I would already be wondering, “Is he the one? Are we going to have like two kids together? Is he going to be successful enough?”

Jodi: Yes. I get that.

Sarika: That kills the energy and the potential of the date. And it’s a turnoff for the man. It’s a turnoff for you. It’s hard to feel turned on if you’re in your head thinking about the past or the future. So I really think that cultivating presence and learning to find that stillness and that joy within yourself is first and foremost.

Jodi: It makes sense. It also puts so much pressure on the person you’re out with, even subconsciously, as well as pressure on yourself when you’re not in the present.

Sarika: Absolutely. Yeah. And along with that, I would say view dating as a self-awareness and a self-discovery journey. So when you’re out dating guys, observe what patterns are coming up for you. Why do you react the way you do. What fears are arising. That takes the pressure off of how he’s behaving, whether he’s “the One.” And it’s more around, “Wow! How could I use this process to A, enjoy myself more?”

I still think about the dates I’ve gone on in the past, before I got married. I had so many fabulous ones. Maybe they weren’t with Mr. Right, but they were still fun and eye-opening. And then the second is, if you are working with a therapist or a coach, you can use the process of dating to bring awareness to your thought patterns, your behaviors. So each time you learn about your triggers and kind of become a better person, become the lover that you want to attract, then the chances of you meeting Mr. Right keep getting higher as well.

Jodi: Can you go into that a little more? Because I’m not entirely following you in terms of bringing awareness to your thought processes. What do you mean by that?

Sarika: Yeah. For example, I remember I used to be kind of controlling. I used to be very judgmental of men and I wasn’t even aware that I was and I also had a lot of self-critical thoughts. I’ve noticed that this is a pattern for so many women. Our thoughts are negative and self-critical. Just noticing what thoughts are rising while you’re dating is so important because then you’re able to kind of go back and diagnose, like, “What’s coming up for you? What patterns are you creating?”

Some of my thoughts had to do with unworthiness, which I didn’t realize was so prominent in my thinking. I was afraid that I was getting too old, that there weren’t any men out there left that were my age. So then, when I would go out on a date, I would feel critical of the men I was out on a date with. Those were all self-sabotaging behaviors that zap the joy out of the dating process and didn’t allow me to be present, open and curious.

Jodi: When your thought process went in that direction, what things did you do to shut it down?

Sarika: The most important thing is to cultivate presence outside of dating: meditation, mindfulness, being in nature, reducing your thoughts, becoming aware of your thoughts in the first place. All of these are important practices to start bringing yourself to the present moment.

Jodi: The first key is presence, being focused in the moment and aware of your thought process and the negative talk. What is the second key to bringing joy into your dating life?

Sarika: The second key is date more than one man.

Jodi: Aha!

Sarika: Yeah. Women have this misconception that once they find a good guy, or the guy that they think is Mr. Right, they can take their profiles down and they can just focus on this one guy, this one relationship. I think that’s a huge no-no. There are several reasons.

The first one is that you put a lot of pressure on yourself in the relationship when you do that and it starts creating all your fear-based patterns, like, “My God, why hasn’t he called me? Is he rejecting me? Is he seeing other women?” The thoughts start going haywire when you’re just focusing on this one person and I’m talking about early, like the early parts of dating someone. I would say, no matter what, make time to go out with multiple men. You don’t have to commit to anyone, I believe, for six months, but every woman is different. Some women I coach meet a guy and they’re sure. The moment that they meet the guy, they want to be with him and they take their profiles down. That’s fine. That’s totally up to you.

But I would say, in general, use this opportunity of being single to date multiple men and get to know yourself in the process, like what’s really important to you. It also allows you to feel joyful because you’re not feeling pressured, or the person isn’t feeling pressured in the process.

Jodi: Because you’re not banking everything on that one person.

Sarika: Exactly.

Jodi: It’s just hanging out with somebody, getting to know them. It’s a night out and it’s an afternoon out. It’s something along those lines.

Sarika: Absolutely. I remember when I first started dating Christian, I told him, “You know, I’m dating other guys and you should feel free to date other women too.” And he was surprised. But I know that he thought I was super hot and sexy for being so open and carefree about it, that I wasn’t just settling for him because he checked the boxes on my list, that I was actually exercising my right to enjoy getting to know different men.

Jodi: Yeah, you were being out and about and living your life and having fun and not waiting at home for him to call or text or stop by or something.

Sarika: Totally. So yeah, it makes you even more sexy to men when you are dating other men. Men know this.

Jodi: So what is the third key then to finding joy while you’re dating?

Sarika: Yeah. The third key is to be yourself. Many of us are conditioned to just talk a certain way, behave a certain way with men and not really share authentically what’s coming up for us. And I know that some of it requires skills, like how you communicate effectively. Most of us haven’t grown up in a household where our parents communicated effectively. We don’t know how to communicate and so a lot of times women don’t share their truth. They don’t share their vulnerabilities. They don’t share their needs or their feelings. And so that can zap the joy as well because you’re hiding, you’re repressing your different sides of yourself, and you’re not able to just be yourself.

When you’re yourself, another person can feel free to be themselves. It’s almost like you’re giving permission to another person to be themselves as well, which is very liberating, very freeing. I remember when I started dating more joyfully, I would invite guys to events that I thought were cool, but that the guy might not have thought was cool. But he came along because I wanted to do it.

I was trying to just be more of myself. Previously, I would expect a guy to wine and dine me on his terms, take me to a nice restaurant and have a glass of wine, have some food. It was very structured and kind of a boxed experience, an experience that wasn’t really truly me.

Jodi: To be authentically yourself can be very challenging for people. You’re asking listeners to take a big leap, to make themselves vulnerable.

Sarika: Yeah, finding ways of expressing your authentic self. It is a skill and it is a process, like you’re saying. So I agree that it shouldn’t be taken so lightly, that it is a process to be honored. How to find your authentic self, how share it with others.

Jodi: The way you described it speaks to self-confidence because you were asking men to do things with you that you wanted to do regardless of whether or not they were coming with you.

Sarika: Exactly! I think that’s an important point. So, 86 percent of girls – and this is a statistic I read, I don’t remember if it’s entirely accurate – but a large number of girls grow up with low self-esteem. That’s part of our culture right now. As women, we’re taught to be self-effacing. We’re taught to be critical of ourselves. Self-esteem is a challenge that’s so many women face, even the smart, beautiful, successful women that I meet. I found that building one’s self-esteem and self-confidence, and really owning your sexy, authentic, true self, is the gateway to bringing more authenticity in to dates.

Jodi: And it helps you be yourself.

Sarika: Yeah, and helps you be yourself unapologetically.

Jodi: I love that, unapologetically!

Sarika: Yeah.

Jodi: That’s how we all should be living. Let’s move to the fourth ingredient, the fourth key to finding joy while you’re dating.

Sarika: The fourth key is to enjoy the dates and don’t take dating too personally.

Jodi: This is so important!

Sarika: Totally, right?

Jodi: It’s essential in order to be able to date for a long time. You can’t take it all personally. Please, share your thoughts about how one doesn’t take it personally, when it is such a personal thing to be doing.

Sarika: One thing we don’t realize is that rejection is part of the dating game, right? We’re going to keep experiencing rejection, either rejecting them or them rejecting us until we finally meet Mr. Right. Everyone faces rejection, men and women. It’s not personal. Dating isn’t personal. It’s just the process. It’s a very vulnerable process in which you are finally meeting the partner that is right and compatible for you.

In that vein, it’s important to create the mindset that, when a guy doesn’t call you back or if you feel like you want to end things with a man, it’s okay. It’s not the end of the world. It’s something that’s an important part of the process. I once met a woman who refused to go on dates because she was so afraid of rejecting men and being rejected. I was like, “Listen, you have nothing to lose.” It’s part of the process. And if you can just go on a date without any expectations and just have a fun, a good time, then you’ll end up being able to show up on a date joyfully.

The other thing is that I talked about not writing off men for superficial reasons. As long as you don’t take each date to be so serious and so personal, then you can go on multiple dates with the guy. Who knows? Maybe on a third or fourth date you’ll find that you have some resonance with him.

Jodi: Be out there enjoying. Just being with someone, doing something together, is what you’re recommending.

Sarika: Yeah. Here’s the thing. If you aren’t interested in a man, it’s okay to let him know. I think women are afraid of saying “no” to a man. We’ve been kind of conditioned to not hurt men, or to not say no to men. In reality, I think a man will understand if you two don’t resonate, as long as you say it in a compassionate way.

Jodi: Do you have any tips on words to use?

Sarika: I think that’s really important. You can tell the guy, “Look, I really enjoyed meeting you.” Be honest about it. Maybe you did actually enjoy meeting someone going on a date with them, but you could say, “You know, I just don’t think our values resonate, or that we resonate right now.” And that’s it. I don’t think it has to be a longer explanation than that.

Jodi: Stay away from the “I just want to be friends” line.

Sarika: Yeah.

Jodi: Or do you recommend women use that line still?

Sarika: No. If you don’t want to be friends, you don’t have to be friends. If you do want to be, then sure, say that. And listen, maybe this guy that you’ve gone on a date with could be good for another friend of yours. You never know, right? So again, just treat each man as a human being. He’s not an object. You’re not an object. We’re each sentient beings who deserve compassion. He’s being vulnerable just like you. So having compassion for him, having compassion for yourself, and being honest is totally okay. And in that vein, you won’t take the whole process so seriously.

Jodi: That is great advice. Do you have another key to finding joy while dating?

Sarika: The fifth key is to clear your inner blocks. I think it’s so important. When I was dating before, I didn’t realize that I had so much built-up, heaviness in my heart and that I wasn’t really as open to men as I thought I was. I was kind of distrustful. Having that block within me made me create patterns with men that were very painful.

It’s really important that in the process of dating, you are aware of the patterns that you’re seeing and possibly if you can work with a therapist or a coach to help uncover these patterns and release those patterns, so that you can start to attract higher vibrational men and feel more free, more goddessy while you’re dating.

I think it’s law of attraction in the end. If you’re open, if your heart is open, if you really are true to yourself, if you’re joyful, you’re on the path to meeting Mr. Right.

Jodi: And that’s the path we want everybody listening to this conversation to be on.

Sarika: Listen, you’re a magnificent woman. Any woman who’s listening to this podcast needs to know that he is absolutely magnificent. You are worthy of beautiful, lifelong, soulmate love. When you really step into your radiance, when you really step into how to be joyful, you can begin to be on the path of attracting a man that you can practice joy together. I think that’s what we all want.

Jodi: That is what we all want; those of us who are looking for that lifelong partner and lifelong companionship. Let’s recap. You’ve covered five keys to finding joy while dating. Please quickly recap what those five are.

Sarika: The first one is to stay focused on the present moment. So, cultivating presence in your life. The second one is to date more than one man. So, date multiple men. And while dating multiple men, just enjoy that process. The third tip is to be free to be yourself. Be authentic, be honest, bring your whole self into the dating process. The fourth tip is to enjoy the dates and don’t take dating personally. And the fifth one is to clear your inner blocks around love.

Jodi: Thank you for sharing those five ingredients to finding joy. You’ve given us great detail on each of them. You’ve given us actions that we can take to bring those elements to life in our lives. Now I know you have a quiz. You created this quiz to help women learn about their goddess archetype. You spoke earlier about feeling more goddessy and this quiz helps women figure out what type of men they’re attracting. Could you tell us more about this quiz and where women can find it?

Sarika: I created this fun quiz where women can find out their Indian goddess archetype and get an understanding of what patterns they seem to be facing with men and how attractive and magnetic you are to men and sort of just tips for how to approach your love life. It’s almost like a little bit of a fun love assessment.

You can find the quiz on my website. If you just go to www.sarikajain.com. I have a link to my Love Magnet Quiz up top.

Jodi: Listeners will also be able to find that link on FirstDateStories.com, on the page where they will find this episode in the show notes section. For the women who are listening and want to learn more about you and your practice, and what else you have going on, what should they do?

Sarika: Well, I would say the number one thing is to go onto my website and take the quiz. I’m based out of New York, but I take clients across the country. I offer complimentary discovery sessions. You can apply for a discovery session through my website. You’ll see a link to that on my website.

Thank you so much Sarika for such thoughtful and such actionable advice. I really have enjoyed having you on the program with me today.

Sarika: I’m so glad that I could join this conversation today. Thank you so much Jodi for this opportunity.

Photo by Clemens van Lay on Unsplash

The post Special Episode: How to Find Joy While Dating appeared first on First Date Stories.

Jodi: Hi, Monica. Thank you so much for coming on the show to talk about a memorable first date you’ve been on.

Monica: Well, I’m glad to be here, Jodi.

Jodi: Let’s start out with you sharing a little bit about yourself before we delve into your story.

Monica: Sure. I’m in the 40-something category. I was married for 21 years and I’m divorced. My surgeon husband left me for his nurse. So, I got to become a divorce statistic and a cliché all at one time!

Jodi: Wow!

Monica: I have two kids. I have a 16-year-old son and a 13-year-old daughter. I was a loan officer while my husband was completing his residency, and then when he went into private practice I took over the household. I was a stay-at-home mom and ran everything at our house, and personally, I guess I would describe myself as a kind of an athlete competitive type. I play on three soccer teams and ride a snowboard, scuba dive, do the marine boot camp because I’m a glutton for punishment. I’m a cyclist and then my latest sport is adventure racing.

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Jodi: Adventure racing?

Monica: I do the shorter races and they are trail running, kayaking, single track mountain bike racing.

Jodi: And with all these activities, you have had time for dating?

Monica: Yes. I finally realized that it was time to carve out a space for myself.

Jodi: So let’s talk a little bit about how you transitioned into dating because you spoke about the end of your marriage. How was it that you got yourself to get going in the dating world again?

Monica: I can attribute that to two of my very best friends, Jeff and Kelly. They’ve always had my best interest at heart and they’ve been instrumental with a “Hey, it’s time to suck it up and get on with your life,” kind of an attitude. I had a lot going on at the time. I was 10 months into my divorce process and my ex and his divorce attorney were basically just thinking of ways to make my life unbearable.

I was going to counseling. I was going to dust off my transcripts because I was in a position where I had been a stay-at-home mom for several years and I was getting ready to go back to work. So, I had a lot on my plate. Jeff and Kelly, they stayed on me. They would call and ask “What are you doing? What’s going on in your life?” And they finally called and said, “Enough is enough and you need to get back out and have some fun.”

Jodi: Thank goodness for them.

Monica: They said hard truths to me. I remember Jeff calling me one day. I was sobbing on the couch because my husband and his lawyer had done something mean to me again and he said, “I don’t want to be mean to you. Get off of that couch right now and do something. Enough is enough!”

Jodi: What were the first steps you took to get back into the social scene and the dating scene?

Monica: Jeff pretty much orchestrated the first foray into this. He and I, we spoke on the phone pretty much every day. We were on the phone one evening and he suggested that I go out with this really cool guy that he knew. “He won’t be your future. He will just be a tiny step toward healing.” By Jeff phrasing it that way, it made it more palatable. It wasn’t, “Oh, I found this perfect man for you and you’re going to ride off in the sunset.” I didn’t want at that point to ride off in the sunset with anyone. Had he presented it that way, I think I would have said, “Absolutely not. No way.”

But instead of that, it was, “Just get out of your house. Just go meet somebody. He’s a nice guy.” I was tired of sitting around my house and staring at what I considered the remnants of my earlier life. “What could be bad about it?” So I agreed.

Jodi: Is this the date we’re going to talk about today?

Monica: Yes.

Jodi: What is the name of the guy who Jeff introduced you to?

Monica: His name is Scott.

Jodi: How did you and Scott end up meeting? Was Jeff a part of it or did just the two of you out together?

Monica: Jeff set it up. He spoke to Scott, spoke to me. Scott was the one who came up with where and when. Then Jeff just called me and said, “Hey, you know, Scott wants to meet in the bar at a restaurant five blocks from your house.” It’s a nice restaurant. It’s a very vibrant area, lots of people. It was close to my house so I felt very comfortable getting myself there and back without anything scary or weird going on. So, it was a very easy date.

Jodi: You were going somewhere familiar to you. You were going out with somebody who knew someone you knew well. It wasn’t so scary for you.

Monica: Exactly.

Jodi: Do you remember how you felt getting ready for the date, the first date you’d had in over 20 years?

Monica: Yes. Because it was framed in my mind as, “You’re not out looking for your next husband,” it took a lot of the heat off of it and a lot of the stress off of it. It was just supposed to be a fun evening out, meeting someone new, and being brave, and stepping out of my comfort zone which is something that I’ve always tried to do. So that aspect of it wasn’t new.

The other thing that meant a lot to me is, I’ve always felt very strongly that we teach our children through our actions and not through what we say. So I felt like that I was teaching my daughter, primarily. Life can throw horrible things at you. You dust yourself off and you move forward. I felt like she was seeing me do that and that was something important to me.

Jodi: How did you get to the date?

Monica: I drove over. I was actually a little bit early, which is not something I can usually claim. I parked in the parking lot, sat in the car for a few minutes and reminded myself that there were no expectations set for the evening. I kind of had that pep talkie thing with myself. I had on a brand-new outfit. I had lost a bunch of weight that I necessarily didn’t really need to lose, but it just kind of came along with the journey. I bought myself a cute little outfit at Anthropologie and got out of the car, straightened up my outfit, and strolled into the restaurant. I was already proud of myself for showing up.

Jodi: Way to go! That is such a healthy way to approach something that could be scary.

Monica: Thank you. If you knew me a little bit better, you’d also know that I also like to tell funny stories. At the back of my mind, there’s always that, “This could just end up being a really funny deal. So let’s just see what happens,” kind of an attitude. There was a very tall, attractive man sitting at the bar and that was Scott.

Jodi: Did you recognize him right away? Had you seen his picture?

Monica: I had not seen a picture. There weren’t a lot of men that fit the description that Jeff had given me. So it was pretty easy and he was obviously kind of watching for somebody to come in the door. We introduced ourselves and he greeted me very nicely and we sat down at the bar and ordered some drinks. The conversation started with, “Well, how do you know Jeff? Well, how do you know Jeff?” That kind of gave a nice introductory with starting point.

Jodi: What sort of vibe did you get from him?

Monica: I got a vibe that he was very self-confident. He obviously had been single for a while. You can get that feel that he was very sure in his role/

Jodi: He knew the dating scene. He knew how to be on a date.

Monica: Right, exactly. I probably didn’t come off that way.

Jodi: With good reason.

Monica: That’s right.

Jodi: So, there you two were. You’re sitting at the bar. Did he order you a drink?

Monica: He ordered drinks for both of us. For me, it felt like I was seated next to someone who I didn’t know at a dinner party. The conversation was fairly comfortable, very harmless topics.

Jodi: What happened next as the evening progressed?

Monica: For me, the evening took a downturn when I began to noticed that Scott was several drinks ahead of me. But he didn’t appear to be getting drunk. So, when I see that happen, I don’t ever think, “Oh, wow! The man can hold his liquor.” I think, “Oh, wow! This man must really drink a lot!” Because all of a sudden, I thought, “Wait a minute, I’m still on my first drink and I think that’s like his third or fourth.”

Jodi: Really? Wow! He was that far ahead of you.

Monica: Oh, yeah. I think it was cranberry and vodka, or something that you can drink fairly quickly if this is what you do all the time. So that was my first red flag. He’s not slurring and he seems like he should be. The second major red flag for me was that he started being rude to the wait staff, leaning over the bar and snapping his fingers at the bartender saying, “Hey! Hey!” That kind of stuff is always a flashpoint for me.

So I’m sitting next to him and I’m feeling really awkward and really pretty embarrassed. I am mouthing “I’m sorry” to the bartender behind Scott’s back whenever he’s looking away. When the bartender is just doing things, like maybe handing me another napkin or something like that, I’m being overly gracious, “Thank you SO much for this napkin.” I’m trying to compensate for what’s happening next to me.

Jodi: Was the bartender going back and giving you nods or eye contact?

Monica: Yes. He was saying, “It’s okay. It’s him!”

Jodi: While Scott was treating the wait staff so poorly, how was he treating you?

Monica: He was not being rude to me. He was not being terribly attentive. He was exuding kind of a self-absorption. Again, I got the feeling that this is something very common to him. He didn’t look like, “Oh my gosh, I’m drinking too much because I’m nervous,” or, “I’m drinking a lot because this woman is such a bore.” I just got the feeling of this was a typical evening for him and I just happen to be the sidekick.

Jodi: Interesting. Was it that he was out on his date with you because he wanted to be drinking and you were someone to be out drinking with, rather than he was out meeting you to potentially have a longer term connection and relationship with you?

Monica: Yes. It felt like he would be doing this same thing the next night with someone else, which at this juncture was fine by me, by the way.

Jodi: Because you are not loving the way he was treating people and you were not loving what you were seeing either.

Monica: No, no, no.

Jodi: Where did the evening go from there?

Monica: The evening took a nosedive for both us when he got around to asking me how long I’ve been divorced. My answer was, “I’m still in the process.” He looked at me and said, “Oh, wow, you’re radioactive!”

Jodi: What did you think when he said that to you?

Monica: I’m sure my mouth just dropped and inside my head, I promise you I thought, “What an ass! I am so glad I’m not responsible for him in any way.”

Jodi: That’s so true! So right. What did you say to him? Did you say anything when he said that really obnoxious statement to you?

Monica: I repeated it back because I was just so stunned. I said, “Radioactive.” And he just looked at me and he made some inane comment like, “Well, yeah, I mean, you know, if you’re not even done, or whatever.”

At that juncture, I thought, “I’m pretty sure that Jeff would have shared that with him. I don’t think Jeff would have said, ‘Hey, do you want to go out with my friend? She’s been divorced 20 years.’” So that also reinforced my feeling of, “I’m just the seat warmer next to him for this evening.”

Jodi: Did you stay much longer?

Monica: I had finished my drink at that time and so it was a good time. He is a friend of my friend. I don’t want to throw my drink in his face and make a big huge scene. I was being brave, but I wasn’t that brave at that point in my life. I had pretty crummy self-esteem going anyway, but I didn’t take it personally.

Had he looked at me and made a very personal comment at me, I would have probably burst into tears. But his radioactive comment, it exposed more about him than it did me. It was a nice, easy point to say, “Whoa! This has been fun.” He didn’t have a problem with it either. It wasn’t like he was falling in love. So he paid the check. I’m sure he didn’t want to offend Jeff either and that was that part of the evening.

We did walk together out of the front door. He handed over his valet ticket. I did not. It was very obvious that my car was not going to be brought to me. They whipped up in his little two seater sports car and he just climbed in and drove away. I remember standing there thinking, “Wow! Okay. Now I’m walking through a dark parking lot all by myself.” It never even crossed his mind that maybe he should have somebody make sure I got to my car safely. On top off the rest of his behavior, that was kind of the icing on the cake.

Jodi: He was no gentleman and he had had a heck of a lot to drink as well. So he shouldn’t have been popping into any car.

Monica: No, no, no. Exactly!

Jodi: You learned a ton about this guy in a very short period of time, but you also learned about yourself, didn’t you?

Monica: Right.

Jodi: What did you learn about yourself?

Monica: I was proud of myself because I was in a very, very crappy personal space of very negative vibes and very hurtful things were happening to me. I learned that my friends can see the value in me even if I couldn’t always see it and I listened to them. That was a good thing. I let them be my self-esteem for me. I also stepped out of my comfort zone, which is always important for everyone. That’s how you grow.

I also learned that I have a say-so about who I spend time with and that I don’t have to settle, that it’s okay to walk away. It’s okay to go out and meet somebody and have it not go anywhere. Like I said earlier, disaster dates can end up being a very good lesson. They can also end up a better story! It also reinforced that I had made a decision. If I’m going to start dating, I’m not going to have these dates come to my home or be near my children. I had some single friends who I had watched. It was a parade of different men coming through their children’s lives. For me, I didn’t feel like that was appropriate. I wanted them to know that I was taking the step. I wasn’t hiding the fact that I was going out. But I wasn’t going to have these people come to my home and be in my children’s lives unless I felt I had met someone very special and that I was going to be spending a lot of time with that person. Then, maybe, I would take that step. That was a personal choice for me and I felt like this date really reinforced that decision.

Jodi: This first ‘first date’ after over two decades of not being in the dating scene really helped get you back on the path to self-renewal!

Monica: Yes! I had gotten married at 21. So I had gone straight from my dad’s house, to college, to my husband’s house. I had never had the experience of having my own place, of taking care of myself and being on my own. This was a step into that experience that I really feel was a valuable experience. It’s a good experience for everyone. I think it’s invaluable for women. I was just coming into it 22 years late.

Jodi: What a great life lesson you learned! All of these were great life lessons that you came to learn out of dark place, with the end of your marriage and an unfortunate first date. They propelled you down a healthy path. There are women listening to this episode who are divorced and who probably relate to a lot of what you experienced. What words of advice do you have for them?

Monica: To not use all of the hurt and negativity that may have been hurled at you in some past experience as an excuse to not get out there. There’s a lot of experiences that can build you as a person. If you can get off that track of meeting your husband, or meeting your next husband; if you can stop that tape and look at it as just a growth experience for yourself, then you’ll be surprised at how comfortable it can be and how refreshing it can be. I encourage people to do that, to take that step.

I’ve also watched a few of my single girlfriends waiting for their married friends to set them up. I did this. It was my married friend who got me that first date. But I encourage women to not bank on that. Your friends who are married or in relationships may not thinking about the dating scene anymore and a lot of times they don’t want to be involved because if it blows up they don’t want to feel responsible for it. So I just encourage women to own it a little bit. You’re an intelligent woman. You know what you like. Trust that.

Jodi: It’s great if other people can help us, but we need to take the initiative.

Monica: Yes!

Jodi: Thank you for coming on this show and sharing this incredibly memorable and meaningful story about your first date with Scott.

Monica: Jodi, thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed sharing this story. It would be fabulous if it helps another woman get back in the game.

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